← Treasure Trove of Sri Bhagavan’s Grace

“Talks With Sri Ramana Maharshi“ : An Authentic Recorded Truth

It is said that it is a great spiritual loss for the spiritual aspirants all over the World that the conversations, discussions and talks that were held between the direct disciples and the Buddha and Jesus Christ were never recorded; and thus were lost for ever !

We, the present — spiritual seekers — are extremely fortunate and gifted that the Sacred Words of Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa and Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi were authentically recorded and made available to the yearning and earnest sadhakas in the book-form — thanks to ‘M’ ( Mahendranath Gupta ) and ‘M’ ( Munagala Venkataramiah) !

They are:

1. The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa and 2. Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi.

With regard to the latter, it is worth mentioning that every word in “TALKS” was shown to the Maharshi and got corrected, if needed. All the “Talks” were written down in the immediate presence of Sri Bhagavan; and, then and there shown to Him.

The Maharshi insisted that the recorder showed it to the questioner and got his approval of correctness!

This Record — during Sri Bhagavan’s lifetime — was referred to as the “Notebook” and was with Him in His roving library, next to His sofa. Sri Munagala Venkataramiah began this spiritual compendium on 15-5-1935. Every entry would be shown to Sri Bhagavan and He would meticulously read it; and, made changes, if were necessary! The important thing to be noted here is that Sri Bhagavan after verifying his portion of what was recorded, would make the Recorder get the question portion verified directly from the questioner himself/herself ! Hence, every line in “Talks” is blessed by the look of Sri Bhagavan.

Six typists typed the whole of the more than 600 written pages of this “Notebook” into typed form, which were properly put into readable and in book-form by the author Munagala Venkataramiah and T.K. Sundaresa Iyer and Major Chadwick.

When the typed form of whole of the written manuscripts of the “Talks” was ready and available, the then Ashram Committee of 17 members, took a typed copy to Chennai. They said they would give it to College English Professors so that it could be well edited before being sent to the Press to be brought out in book-form. After some time, the edited typed pages were received – to the surprise of all, pages and pages had been struck out as ‘repetition’ and much more so to see that Sri Bhagavan’s words had been changed, deleted and altered ! When it was sent to Major Chadwick for perusal and approval — after a day — he came to the office extremely disturbed and angered; and literally shouted at the Ashram President: “Venkatoo! How dare these atrocities were allowed to be carried out in the name of ‘editing done’. Not a word should be either deleted or edited. Every single word had been personally read and approved by Sri Bhagavan. We would be unworthy and ungrateful to the Master if this atrocities were permitted to take place….. !”

The then old devotees too fully agreed with Chadwick; and, we devotees now have been blessed with the unadulterated, unaltered, pure, original version only of this treasured divinity!

The first volume was brought out in 1955 covering the Talk No.1 to Talk No.240 covering the period 15-5-1935 to 20-7-1936.

The reception to its availability was tremendously welcomed by all, especially the Swamiji’s of Sri Ramakrishna Mutt — all over the World! Responding to such overwhelming reception to the Vol. I, great efforts were made to bring out the rest of the manuscripts (upto 1-4-1939) in Vols. II and III within 1955 itself!

The full Bound Edition — containing all the THREE Volumes – for the first time was also brought out the very same year 1955 — thanks to the co-operation and munificence of the devotees!

“TALKS”, now is treated with reverence equivalent to the “BIBLE” by those who follow and cling to the Sacred Feet of Sri Bhagavan; and, also more over by all the true spiritual aspirants, all over the World!

Major Chadwick further extolled the worth of this treasure of a publication :

“Thus, we may be sure that here we have the exact teaching of the Master, and reading them we once again sit at His Sacred Feet in the Old Hall.

“What more is there to say, but to advise that every devotee has to read this book and make it a part of himself? Not one word to be passed over lightly, or one conversation to be dismissed as superfluous. It is all pure gold. And here again we find the ever-living Sri Ramana Maharshi before us in person, teaching us in His own inimitable words for our benefit and delight.”

Further, when Chadwick was once asked by a devotee that why he was extolling Sri Bhagavan so high over and above all great Masters, his ever-calm face blossomed into a divine smile and replied : “Its true ! All Masters are Great! They ‘solve’ the problems of the aspirants! But my Master Sri Bhagavan “dissolves” the very problem itself !

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For the immediate benefit of the readers, we reproduce THREE important sections of this Holy book.

May Sri Bhagavan bless us all !

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Munagala Venkataramiah – the Author of “Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi”

Talk No. 197.

Gul and Shirin Byramjee, two Parsi ladies of Ahmedabad, arrived this day. They spoke at night to Maharshi: “Bhagavan! We have been spiritually inclined from our childhood. We have read several books on philosophy, and are attracted by Vedanta. So we read the Upanishads, Yoga Vasishtha, Bhagavad Gita, etc. We try to meditate, but there is no progress in our meditation. We do not understand how to realise. Can you kindly help us towards realisation?”

M.: How do you meditate?

D.: I begin to ask myself “Who am I?”, eliminate body as not ‘I’, the breath as not ‘I’, the mind as not ‘I’ and I am not able to proceed further.

M.: Well, that is so far as the intellect goes. Your process is only intellectual. Indeed, all the scriptures mention the process only to guide the seeker to know the Truth. The Truth cannot be directly pointed out. Hence this intellectual process.

You see, the one who eliminates all the not-I cannot eliminate the ‘I’. To say ‘I am not this’ or ‘I am that’, there must be the ‘I’. This ‘I’ is only the ego or the ‘I-thought’. After the rising up of this ‘I-thought’, all other thoughts arise. The ‘I-thought’ is therefore the root-thought. If the root is pulled out all others are at the same time uprooted. Therefore seek the root ‘I’, question yourself “Who am I?”; find out its source. Then all these will vanish and the pure Self will remain ever.

D.: How to do it?

M.: The ‘I’ is always there — in deep sleep, in dream and in wakefulness. The one in sleep is the same as that who now speaks. There is always the feeling of ‘I’. Otherwise do you deny your existence? You do not. You say ‘I am’. Find out who is.

D.: Even so, I do not understand. ‘I’, you say, is the wrong ‘I’ now. How to eliminate this wrong ‘I’?

M.: You need not eliminate the wrong ‘I’. How can ‘I’ eliminate itself? All that you need do is to find out its origin and abide there. Your efforts can extend only thus far. Then the Beyond will take care of itself. You are helpless there. No effort can reach it.

D.: If ‘I’ am always — here and now, why do I not feel so?

M.: That is it. Who says it is not felt? Does the real ‘I’ say it or the false ‘I’? Examine it. You will find it is the wrong ‘I’. The wrong ‘I’ is the obstruction. It has to be removed in order that the true ‘I’ may not be hidden. The feeling that ‘I have not realised’ is the obstruction to realisation. In fact it is already realised; there is nothing more to be realised. Otherwise, the realisation will be new; it has not existed so far, it must take place hereafter. What is born will also die. If realisation be not eternal it is not worth having. Therefore what we seek is not that which must happen afresh. It is only that which is eternal but not now known due to obstructions; it is that we seek. All that we need do is to remove the obstruction. That which is eternal is not known to be so because of ignorance. Ignorance is the obstruction. Get over this ignorance and all will be well.

The ignorance is identical with the ‘I-thought’. Find its source and it will vanish.

The ‘I-thought’ is like a ghost which, although not palpable, rises up simultaneously with the body, flourishes and disappears with it. The body-consciousness is the wrong ‘I’. Give up this body-consciousness. It is done by seeking the source ‘I’. The body does not say ‘I am’. It is ‘you’ who say, ‘I am the body!’ Find out who this ‘I’ is. Seeking its source it will vanish.

D.: Then, will there be Bliss?

M.: Bliss is coeval with Being-Consciousness. All the arguments relating to the eternal Being of that Bliss apply to Bliss also. Your nature is Bliss. Ignorance is now hiding that Bliss. Remove the ignorance for Bliss to be freed.

D.: Should we not find out the ultimate reality of the World, individual and God?

M.: These are all conceptions of the ‘I’. They arise only after the advent of the ‘I-thought’. Did you think of them in your deep sleep? You existed in deep sleep and the same you are now speaking. If they be real should they not be in your sleep also? They are only dependent upon the ‘I-thought’. Again does the World tell you ‘I am the World’? Does the body say ‘I am body’? You say, “This is the World”, “this is body” and so on. So these are only your conceptions. Find out who you are and there will be an end of all your doubts.

D.: What becomes of the body after realisation? Does it exist or not? We see realised beings acting like others.

M.: This question need not arise now. Let it be asked after realisation, if need be. As for the realised beings let them take care of themselves. Why do you worry about them?

In fact, after realisation the body and all else will not appear different from the Self.

D.: Being always Being-Consciousness-Bliss, why does God place us in difficulties? Why did He create us?

M.: Does God come and tell you that He has placed you in difficulties? It is you who say so. It is again the wrong ‘I’. If that disappears there will be no one to say that God created this or that. ‘That’ which is, does not even say ‘I am’. For, does any doubt rise that ‘I am not’? Only in such a case should one be reminding oneself ‘I am a man’. One does not. On the other hand, if a doubt arises whether he is a cow or a buffalo he has to remind himself that he is not a cow, etc., but ‘I am a man.’ This would never happen. Similarly with one’s own existence and realisation.

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Sri Bhagavan inside the Old Hall

Talk No.198.

Some ladies asked if there is rebirth of man as a lower animal.

M.: Yes. It is possible, as illustrated by Jada Bharata — the scriptural anecdote of a royal Sage, having been reborn as a deer.

D.: Is the individual capable of spiritual progress in the animal body?

M.: Not unlikely, though it is exceedingly rare

D.: What is Guru’s Grace? How does it work?

M.: Guru is the Self.

D.: How does it lead to realisation?

M.: Isvaro gururatmeti ... (God is the same as Guru and Self ...). A person begins with dissatisfaction. Not content with the World he seeks satisfaction of desires by prayers to God; his mind is purified; he longs to know God more than to satisfy his carnal desires. Then God’s Grace begins to manifest. God takes the form of a Guru and appears to the devotee; teaches him the Truth; purifies the mind by his teachings and contact; the mind gains strength, is able to turn inward; with meditation it is purified yet further, and eventually remains still without the least ripple. That stillness is the Self. The Guru is both exterior and interior. From the exterior he gives a push to the mind to turn inward; from the interior he pulls the mind towards the Self and helps the mind to achieve quietness.

That is Grace.

Hence there is no difference between God, Guru and Self.

* * *

Talk No.199.

The ladies later asked several questions relating to their present inability to realise the already realised, eternal Self. The sign of Realisation would be Bliss, which was absent.

Maharshi said: There is only One Consciousness. But we speak of several kinds of consciousness, as body-consciousness, Self-consciousness. They are only relative states of the same Absolute Consciousness. Without Consciousness, time and space do not exist. They appear in Consciousness. It is like a screen on which these are cast as pictures and move as in a cinema show. The Absolute Consciousness is our real nature.

D.: From where do these objects arise?

M.: Just from where you rise. Know the subject first and then question about the object.

D.: It is only one aspect of the question.

M.: The subject comprehends the object also. That one aspect is an all-comprehensive aspect. See yourself first and then see the objects. What is not in you, cannot appear outside.

D.: I am not satisfied.

M.: Satisfaction can be only when you reach the source. Otherwise restlessness exists.

D.: Is the Supreme Being with or without attributes?

M.: Know first if you are with or without attributes.

D.: What is Samadhi?

M.: One’s own true nature.

D.: Why then is effort necessary to attain it?

M.: Whose is the effort?

D.: Maharshi knows that I am ignorant……

M.: Do you know that you are ignorant? Knowledge of ignorance is no ignorance.

All scriptures are only for the purpose of investigating if there are two Consciousnesses. Everyone’s experience proves the existence of only One Consciousness. Can that One divide itself into two? Is any division felt in the Self? Awaking from sleep one finds oneself the same in the wakeful, as well as in the sleep states. That is the experience of each one. The difference lies in seeking, in the outlook. Because you imagine that you are the seer separate from the experience, this difference arises. Experience shows that your being is the same all through.

D.: From where did ignorance come?

M.: There is no such thing as ignorance. It never arises. Everyone is Knowledge itself. Only Knowledge does not shine easily. The dispelling of ignorance is Wisdom which always exists - e.g., the necklace remaining round the neck though supposed to have been lost; or each of the ten fools failing to count himself and counting only the others. To whom is Knowledge or ignorance?

D.: Can we not proceed from external to internal?

M.: Is there any difference like that? Do you feel the difference — external and internal — in your sleep? This difference is only with reference to the body and arises with body-consciousness (‘I-thought’). The so-called waking state is itself an illusion.

Turn your vision inward and then the whole World will be full of Supreme Spirit. The World is said to be illusion. Illusion is really Truth. Even the material sciences trace the origin of the Universe to some one primordial matter — subtle, exceedingly subtle.

God is the same both to those who say the World is real and to their opponents. Their outlook is different. You need not entangle yourself in such disputations. The goal is one and the same for all. Look to it.

-— from “Talks With Sri Ramana Maharshi”

Munagala Venkataramiah standing in front of the ‘Stone Cave’ at Palakottu wherein he was often immersed in meditation

The very first photo of Sri Bhagavan, taken by the Medical College student T.N.Krishnaswami (Dr.)