M.: We read a newspaper and all the articles therein, but do not care to know anything about the paper itself. We take the chaff but not the substance. The substratum on which all this is printed is the paper and if we know the substratum all else will be known.
D.: You said the only ONE which exists is the REAL. What is that only ONE?
M.: The ONE only is the , the existence, that is the world, the things that we see and we ourselves.
D.: What is Ātman? Is there a finality for the ĀTMAN?
M.: First learn what is Ātman. If we know this then we can query as to whether it has a finality or not. Which do you call ĀTMAN?
D.: is ĀTMAN.
M.: Learn what is. What is the difference between jīva and ? Is jīva itself Ātman or is there any separate thing as Ātman? There is an end for what you observe; that which is created has a destruction or end. That which is not created has no end. That which exists cannot be observed. It is unobservable. We must find out what it is that appears; the destruction of that which appears is the end. That which exists, exists for ever; that which newly appears is later lost.
D.: What happens after birth in human form, what happens to the ?
M.: Let us know first what we are. We do not understand what we are, and until we know what we are there is no room for such a question. (Bhagavān obviously here refers to the confusion of body as Ātman ——which is the cause for this confusion of ideas of death and birth, for Ātman has no birth or death, it is untainted by the elements of Earth, Fire, Air and Water, etc.) (Gita II, 11)—“Aśochyān anvaśochas tvam, prajnāvādamścha bhāshase” etc.—What is it that had birth? Whom do you call a man? If, instead of seeking explanation for birth, death and after-death matters, the question is raised as to who and how you are now, these questions will not arise. You are the same while asleep (deep sleep), in dream and in waking state. Is the ‘I’ thought , or the body jīva? Is this thought our nature? Or is the experience that we live, etc., our nature? (Quotes the śloka from the Gita: Yadā te . . II, 52.)
D.: Why is necessary?
M.: If you do not make , then Loka vichāra creeps in. That which is not, is sought for, but not that which is obvious. When once you have found what you seek, (enquiry) also ceases and you rest in it. As long as one is confusing the body with the Ātman, Ātman is said to be lost and one is said to seek for it, but the ĀTMAN itself is never lost. It always exists. A body is said to be Ātman, an Indriya is said to be Ātman, then there is the , and Paramātman and what not. There are a thousand and one things called Ātman. The search for Ātman is to know that which is really Ātman.