Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi · Volume III

Talk 513

16th September, 1938

Referred to in Talk 515

Major Chadwick again gave his versified translation of the for Sri Bhagavan to read. Sri Bhagavan softly spoke of the interpretation of the Bhāshyakāra and further explained the same. To consider the as a region is also admissible. That is what the pourāniks say and many other schools also imply it by expounding (liberation by degrees). But the Upanishads speak of sadyomukti (immediate liberation) as in “Na tasya prānā utkrāmanti; ihaiva praleeyante”—the do not rise up; they lose themselves here. So Brahmaloka will be Realisation of Brahman (Brahmasākshātkāra). It is a state and not a region. In the latter case, parāmritat must be properly understood. It is parā inasmuch as avyākrita is the causal Energy transcending the universe, amrita because it persists until the Self is realised. So that parāmritāt will mean avyākrita. The kramamukti (liberation by degrees) school say that the upāsaka goes to the region of his which is Brahmaloka to him. The souls passing to all other lokas return to be reborn. But those who have gained the Brahmaloka do not. Moreover those desirous of a particular loka can by proper methods gain the same. Whereas Brahmaloka cannot be gained so long as there is any desire left in the person. Desirelessness alone will confer the loka on him. His desirelessness signifies the absence of the incentive for rebirth.

The age of Brahma is practically immeasurable. The presiding deity of the loka is said to have a definite period of life. When he passes away his loka also is dissolved. The inmates are emancipated at the same time, irrespective of the different nature of individual consciousness in them prior to Self-realisation.

The school objects to the idea of sadyomukti (immediate liberation) because the is supposed to lose body-consciousness at the same time that ignorance is dispelled, but he continues to live in the body. They ask, “How does the body function without the mind?” The answer is somewhat elaborate:

Knowledge () is not incompatible with ignorance () because the Self in purity is found to remain along with ignorance-seed (ajnāna beeja) in sleep. But the incompatibility arises only in the waking and dream states. Ajnāna has two aspects: (veiling) and (multiplicity). Of these, āvarana (veiling) denotes the veil hiding the Truth. That prevails in sleep. Multiplicity (vikshepa) is activity in different times. This gives rise to diversity and prevails in waking and dream states (jāgrat and svapna). If the veil, i.e., āvarana is lifted, the Truth is perceived. It is lifted for a and so his (causal body) ceases to exist. Vikshepa alone continues for him. Even so, it is not the same for a jnāni as it is for an . The ajnāni has all kinds of , i.e., (doership) and bhoktrtva (enjoyership), whereas the jnāni has ceased to be a doer (karta). Thus only one kind of vāsana obtains for him. That too is very weak and does not overpower him, because he is always aware of the nature of the Self. The tenuous bhoktrtva vāsana is the only remnant of the mind left in the jnāni and he therefore appears to be living in the body.

This explanation when applied to the amounts to this: A has his destroyed; the sthūla sarīra (gross body) has no effect on him and is for all practical purposes destroyed too. The sūkshma sarīra (subtle body) alone remains. It is otherwise called ātivāhika sarīra. It is this which is held by all persons after the physical body is given up. And with this they traverse to other lokas until another suitable physical body is taken. The jnāni is supposed to move in with this sūkshma sarīra.. Then that is also dissolved and he passes to final Liberation.

The whole explanation is meant only for the onlooker. The himself will never raise such questions. He knows by his experience that he is not bound by any kind of limitations.

D.: What is the “final emancipation” according to the foregoing explanation?

M.: The ātivāhika or the corresponds to the pure light which one experiences just after sleep and before the rise of the ego. It is Cosmic Consciousness. That is only the Light reflected from the Heart. When the reflection ceases and abides as the Original Light in the Heart it is final emancipation.

D.: But “Yoga Vasishta” says that the (mind) of a is achala (unchanging).

M.: So it is. Achala chitta (unchanging mind) is the same as (pure mind). The jnāni’s manas is said to be the suddha manas. The “Yoga Vāsishta” also says that is no other than the mind. So Brahman is suddha manas only.

D.: Will the description of as suit this ? For this too will be destroyed in the final emancipation.

M.: If suddhd manas is admitted, the Bliss () experienced by the must also be admitted to be reflected. This reflection must finally merge into the Original. Therefore the state is compared to the reflection of a spotless mirror in another similar mirror. What will be found in such a reflection? Pure (Ether). Similarly, the jnāni’s reflected Bliss (Ānanda) represents only the true Bliss.

These are all only words. It is enough that a person becomes antarmukhi (inward-bent). The Sastras are not needed for an inward-turned mind. They are meant for the rest.

Words in this talk