← The Gospel of Swami RamdasHis talks, as recorded by Swami Satchidananda

1953-01-13

Chapter 13

Anandashram, January 13, 1953

108. The Whole Universe is One

In the afternoon Papa was listening to the radio. CR Rao was gently fanning him. Ray Magee, the American devotee, was reading a book, sitting in front of Papa. After some time he drew nearer to Papa and began to talk.

Ray Magee: Are the politicians doing any real service to humanity?

Papa: Don't be a mere political instrument. Work on purely political lines is on the lower plane. Of course, politicians try to do some good for the world. But they limit their work to the interests of their party or country. And very often it is found that they do more harm than good to people. Politics is, after all, a vicious circle. You know it is called 'power politics'. Instead of working for power, name and fame, you must aim at higher things. We must stand on higher and vaster plane from which we can see all humanity as one. In fact, the whole universe is one. There is a sloka in Sanskrit, the meaning of which is: 'Shiva is my father, Parvati is my mother, all devotees of Shiva are my brothers and the three worlds my home.' What a glorious vision! And with what strength and authority we say we belong to the whole universe, instead of merely asserting that we are Indians, Americans, Englishmen or Frenchmen! We can claim the vast universe, our divine father's property, as our own. You must have heard about St Francis of Assisi. He used to address every being as brother – 'brother dog', 'brother bird' and so on. He could extend his sense of brotherhood even to lower animals. Is this not a grand vision? We must keep the highest ideal before us. In order that our mind may not come down to the lower level, we must have constant remembrance of God. It is like keeping our face always towards the sun. It we turn back we shall be facing the shadow.

109. Who is a True Instrument of God?

Ray Magee: How is it that men, who have attained God, still continue to work and act in the world? Sankara was moving in the world preaching, arguing, working. How do you explain this?

Papa: Sankara had risen above body-consciousness and was well established in the super conscious state, in which he found his real being and existence. From this state he saw himself as the pure inner witness, the Sakshi, of all the three states of wakefulness, dream and deep sleep. Note that he was a witness not only of the waking state, but also of the sleeping and dreaming states. It is only on reaching the super conscious state that one can be a witness of all the three states. The universe is then seen as a dream, an illusion. Whatever you do in that state is without any sense of doership or effect on that consciousness. You are the witness, quite detached and free.

If the world really exists, where does it go when we are asleep? You know that the world does not exist for us while sleeping, but is back when we are awake. It comes and goes. So it can be only a play of the mind. This is what Sankara says.

There is also another way of looking at it. The universe is the manifestation of God's power. This power is working, having as its basis that supreme consciousness which is absolute, changeless, motionless and eternal, and which is a mere witness of all the activities born of that power. It is like the sun who witnesses all the activities of the world, and is at the same time helping all growth and action, giving light and heat. Similarly, God is responsible in a way for bringing about all life, activities and movements in the world, but still He is the passive witness of everything. God's power, that has manifested itself as the universe and all its movements, is being witnessed by God Himself. His is the power that manifests; He is also the witness of that power, the Spirit beyond the manifestation. He is both static and dynamic at once.

Creation or movement implies form. Is it not so? This thing (taking his spittoon in his hand) has a form. Every particle of this is in a state of constant vibration, though invisible to us. A breeze blowing on a still sheet of water causes small ripples or waves. The waves are nothing but the same water in motion. The movement caused the formless to assume a form. So also, in the bosom of the Infinite, in the stillness of the Spirit, a wave arose and the entire universe came into existence. Every particle of the universe is in a state of vibration or movement. This accounts for the manifold forms.

Continuing, Papa said, "According to the Tantric philosophy, eternal motion and eternal rest coexist in God. The changeless, formless, motionless, eternal Spirit is in eternal rest, while the universe is in eternal motion. God is both stillness and movement at once. He is at once static and dynamic. This is the mystery. We cannot define God. The intellect cannot comprehend Him. He is active and at the same time inactive. When we move and act in the world we must feel that everything is done solely by His power. We must also realise Him as the absolute changeless Spirit. We are then in that state of super consciousness in which we can be the pure witness of the world and its movements.

"Years ago, when Ramdas came out of a cave after deep meditation and was walking, he was feeling at the same time that he was the motionless Spirit, all-pervading. He was really surprised. The body was walking and yet he felt he was not moving. He was the calm and still Spirit. When this experience came to him, he realised the truth that the power manifested in the form of the universe was not different from the absolute, static Spirit.

"He who has this knowledge and experience becomes a real instrument of God. He is ever in tune with God. God's power is universal, so his actions too have the stamp of the universal. He has no ego-sense. He does not do things for himself, from the viewpoint of an ordinary individual. He works in the knowledge that he is the universal Spirit, and whatever is done by him is for the good of all beings. He rises beyond the notion of individuals, parties or nations. His thoughts and actions have a universal significance. In the early stages, one gets glimpses of the universal consciousness. Then one is puzzled and does not clearly know whether one is acting from the universal standpoint or from that of the individual."

110. Saints Promote Universal Peace

Ray Magee: I had a strong urge sometime back that I should, in the company of some others, send a message of love to the world and move from place to place in Europe and Russia, carrying the message of love and non-violence. But I was not sure if it was a prompting from God.

Papa: You were then inspired by God. When your mind is concentrated upon God, the thought of universal peace that rises in your heart will work wonders. If a million people thus raise a wave of pure peace-thought, each in his or her own mind, it will surely arrest the blind rush of mankind towards war and dispel from the minds of people all thought of war.

About two years ago when Ramdas was in Bombay, there seemed to be a sign of imminent war. A few friends then came to Ramdas and expressed their fears. Then Ramdas somehow declared that war was not going to break out. Soon after, the war-clouds dispersed. Even now, when war-clouds gather, Ramdas feels intuitively there will be no war. His keen wish is also that. Such a feeling is indeed the outcome of tremendous faith in God. Ramdas is watching what is going on in the world, through the radio and the newspapers. Sitting on this hillock, he could feel, as it were, the pulse of the world. There is nothing wrong with the pulse, though it is beating a bit fast. This may be due to the prevailing nervous tension. All will quiet down, by God's grace.

Papa continued: "People ask Ramdas why there is so much trouble and suffering in the world. Ramdas’ answer is that we suffer because we have forgotten God. When we do not remember God, or do not pray to Him, how can we have peace and happiness? But, fortunately for the world, there are a few great souls, who strongly desire peace and will that war should not break out. So peace shall prevail in spite of adverse factors.

"Ramdas often feels like going to America and other countries that are agitated by fear of war, to tell the people that war is not going to break out, that they must remember and pray to God for universal peace. When God calls, Ramdas will go. When he wills, Ramdas will go not only to America, but all over the world. He has gone many times to several places in India. He now wants to tour foreign countries. There are so many friends in Europe and America who would like him to visit them. Perhaps the time is not yet ripe. God knows best. The idea is there. Suddenly it comes up and soon calms down. His will be done!

"But why should Ramdas go anywhere at all? Why should he not send waves of peace-thought from here, so that the necessary transformation is brought about at the other end? All the great souls in the world, who remain ever in tune with God, are definitely working towards world peace. It is not one or two alone who are contributing towards this. Do you think that the great saints now living are not working for peace? The combined power of all the saints must produce the desired effect. By sending positive thoughts of peace, they can neutralise the dark forces that drive men to war. We have to set the divine force in motion to counteract evil."

111. Thoughts will not go in vain

CR Rao: Your visit to foreign countries will surely help to spread this message of peace.

Papa: Yes. Millions should co-operate for the supreme cause of peace. We should strive not to fight and destroy the enemy, but to dispel the war-idea altogether by bringing about a change in the minds of people.

This talk was going on then for about an hour. It was time for Papa's coffee.

S: Papa talked with so much enthusiasm that it looked as if Papa had almost started for America.

Papa: These thoughts of Ramdas will not go in vain. Mataji would have been pleased to hear this talk. She sometimes asks Ramdas, 'Why do you, great saints, remain like this, simply witnessing everything? You have immense power in you. Why do you not make use of it for the good of the world? You take all that happens in the world in a light spirit and are indifferent. Why not take things seriously and do something concrete to help the world?' Hearing that, Ramdas would only laugh. She would then say Ramdas simply laughs it away saying that everything is God's will, that God does everything for good, that God is everywhere and that it is all His lila. In fact, Ramdas wonders what is there for anybody to do in particular, when everything happens by the will of God. Why should we try to work against His will? If He wills that war should occur, who can stand against it? So many wars have occurred in the world. Did they occur without His willing so? Let us not, however, be silently witnessing whatever happens. Let us send out good thoughts to neutralise evil thoughts.

CR Rao: Arjuna was asked by the Lord to fight.

Papa: This is not a fight on the physical plane. This is purely in the realm of the mind. We have to destroy the inner enemies so that there will be peace in us and in the outer world.

112. Love, the Basis of Universal Service

Ray Magee: By intense austerities we develop high psychic power. Will the ego not use it?

Papa: You must not allow the ego to make use of the power. It can and must be transmuted into love. Then alone it can be used for the good of the world. Power can be used either for our own good, or for the good of others. In the latter case it is selfless love. Here the ego is completely absent. When love flows freely, without being obstructed by the ego, it will be for the good of all, for universal good. Whenever you do something without desire for any return, then it is a divine action. You know our ashram stands for Universal love and Service. It is joy to give to others and it is joy to receive for the sake of others. By doing such service, we are not losing anything, but day after day, our joy increases and our power to give joy to others also grows. So many who come to us find happiness here. It is joy to serve, it is joy to see others happy. It is joy to do good to others.

The bell rang for coffee and the devotees left. Then Papa and S alone remained in the hall. Mataji was sleeping in the room adjacent to the bhajan-hall.

113. Papa Enthusiastic about Foreign Tour

Papa (to S): When Ramdas talks like this about America and Europe, he feels quite fit and energetic to go to those countries.

S: I thought that, if there was an aeroplane ready at the gate, Papa would have flown off to America straightaway.

Papa laughed. He was full of enthusiasm and was talking like a young man of thirty.

Hearing the laughter, Mataji woke up and coming near Papa, asked what the matter was. Papa told her that he had a talk with the American friend. He also referred to the remarks of S that Papa would have flown off to America straightaway, if there was a plane ready. She did not seem to like the talk about a trip to America. A couple of minutes later, Papa said: "Why should Ramdas go so far away? He would go there to change the hearts of the people. If Ramdas cannot change the hearts of people here in the ashram, what is the meaning of his going to foreign countries with that object?'

At this Mataji laughed, saying "Yes! Yes!"

Papa and Mataji laughed together.

January 15, 1953

114. Yogi Milarepa

This morning Papa was reading to Mataji a few pages from the book ‘Yogi Milarepa’. S was also present.

Papa told S: "When reading the book, Ramdas remembers his own wandering days, his life in caves and so on. Very little has been recorded about these experiences in his books."

Mataji, who was nearby, getting Papa's clothes ready for his bath, intervened and said, "Papa used to talk to me at Kasaragod for hours together about his experiences. If I had known how to write I would have written volumes on them. In those days I was alone with Papa in the ashram and his food was also sent by a devotee from the town. So I was free to listen to his talks. People from the town were at first coming in large numbers to see Papa, but when they heard I was in the ashram, they stopped coming. In those days Papa's experiences were fresh in his memory."

Again referring to the book Papa continued: "Yogi Milarepa says he had his physical body also divinised. It is written in the book that he did not leave his body behind. It is also written that the Yogi appeared in many places at one and the same time, like Sri Krishna. Divinisation of the body had taken place in the case of Narada, Hanuman and others. Tukaram also, it is said, did not leave his body behind."

Papa now went for his bath.

115. Talk of Foreign Tour continued

At 10 p.m. in the bhajan-hall. All the devotees had returned to their rooms except a few who were talking to Papa during his usual massage.

S narrated to him the gist of the conversation he had with the American visitor, Ray Magee. Magee had asked S: 'Through what group or party would Papa speak if he happened to go to America?" S had replied that, though Papa would willingly accept invitations from any group or party, he would speak to the Americans not as a member of any particular sect or creed, not as a Hindu, Christian, Muslim or even as an Indian, but as one who was above all distinctions of religion, race, nationality, caste or creed. Papa's was universal religion acceptable to all alike. Magee gave him a hint that there was the possibility of Papa being considered as associated with a particular party if he happened to lecture through that party first. The safest thing would be for Papa to be introduced through the universities.

Papa: Imagine Ramdas lecturing in a big hall, full of university professors, philosophers, and so on and so forth. Do you think they will be able to appreciate or be interested in what Ramdas says? Ramdas well remembers what a miserable failure he was as a speaker in his early years. When he was a student in Bombay, he was a member of a debating society and debates used to take place every week. Ramdas attended all the debates. In those days Ramdas was reading a lot of books and was considered to have a very good knowledge of English. One day, the debate was not interesting, and friends pressed Ramdas to take up one side of the debate, as they knew that he had read some articles the previous day on the subject. Ramdas stood on the platform and tried to speak. Not a word would come out. His mind was a perfect blank. He tried for a couple of minutes to say something, but miserably failed and got down. Nowadays when Ramdas speaks at meetings, words simply rush out of him in torrents. But Ramdas must speak slowly and steadily so that ideas may not get mixed up. When he gives lectures in America, he must use good language and speak like one inspired.

S: Why like one inspired? When Papa starts talking, the people there will regret they have only two ears each and would wish they had more.

Papa (laughing): You mean, like the devas who came to witness Sri Rama's wedding and were sorry they had only two eyes each? They were envious of Shiva who could use his third eye also. Indra considered himself most fortunate as, by the curse of Gautama Muni, he had a thousand eyes. Do you think, if Gautama Muni lives now, these people will go in for his curse so that they may each have a thousand ears? God will make Ramdas speak as He thinks best.

Swami Krishnananda: Why God 'making Ramdas' speak? Will it not be God Himself speaking?'

Papa (laughing): Do you think Ramdas is such a big man as to be called God?

Gopal who was spreading the bed for Mataji, suddenly laughed aloud at the last remark of Papa. Papa asked him why he laughed. Gopal replied that he remembered what Papa wrote to Mataji during the last tour about himself. Mataji had not accompanied Papa on that tour, but Gopal had. Papa wrote to Mataji from Palghat that Gopal, who was witnessing the grand receptions given to Papa at various places, had begun to feel that Papa was not an ordinary person. He also added that Gopal's devotion to Papa would increase very much by the time the party returned to the ashram, as he would think then that Papa was much greater than he ever thought.

Reverting to the American tour, Papa said, "Why should Ramdas go to America? Has he to teach anything? Everybody is the embodiment of God and what has He to learn? You are all Gods, massaging his body, and talking to him. God going to meet God – is it necessary?"

S: Is it not that the Indian God goes to meet the American God?

Papa: Yes, but this God has not so far moved out of India. He has been moving about only in India. Sometimes He takes ill too. (Laughter)