← The Gospel of Swami RamdasHis talks, as recorded by Swami Satchidananda

1957-10-16

Chapter 56

Anandashram, October 16, 1957

577. Love is the greatest thing

The talks turned to Papa's travel in America and his visit to the Milk Farm near Seattle. Papa told Mildred that he had seen the best cows in that farm.

MH: When we talk about cows, I remember they worship cows in India. I had difficulty in knowing its significance. The answer came from my master who explained that the cow is the second mother on earth. As soon as the child stops getting mother's milk, it starts getting cow's milk. For that reason Indians worship the cow as a goddess.

Papa: In the ashram also we worship cows.

MH: Do you believe in the worship of cows? You say we should worship God alone.

Papa: We worship God in the cows. It is only a ceremony. On a particular day in the year all the cows are given nice bath, are decorated with garlands and other coloured marks, and given some sweets also.

MH: In America we have the Father's day, Mother's day and Children's day. Here you have Cows' day.

The talks suddenly drifted to astrology. Papa talked something in general about astrology and added: "It seems some astrologers have predicted that Ramdas will be living up to 103 years. It means another thirty years."

MH: It will simply be wonderful.

Papa: These people here have taken upon themselves the task of making Ramdas live as long as possible in this body.

MH: Everything is possible for God.

Papa: God may be willing to preserve this body through their care and service.

MH: Your statement to me will apply here, that if the wish of the devotees is intense, God will fulfill it.

Papa: You must wish with a pure and loving heart, rather with a heart full of faith. Faith is very important. What is the greatest thing in the world? Hope, faith or love? Love is the greatest. That is how the book ‘The Greatest Thing in the World’ starts. Faith is great. Hope is greater. But love is the greatest.

During his stay in Los Angeles, Ramdas happened to visit the house of a lady who was a psychiatrist. Ramdas talked to a small group there for some time. He told them that there is a science which is greater than psychiatry. That is spirituality. It can do wonders. Psychology is only about the mental, but spirituality is of the supramental or spiritual plane. We must go beyond the mind to infinity and eternity. Then alone we will come by the true power to do good to humanity and heal them. The lady listened to Ramdas with interest and said at last that she agreed with Ramdas. Before we left that place a young man who was present there gave Ramdas a Uranium Detector as a gift. It is here now, but it is not working as there is no battery available. After we brought it here we tested a lot of stones for uranium, but could not find any. Uranium you have to find within the heart and that uranium is God. Mind is the instrument to detect that and when the uranium is detected, the instrument is discarded. When you have found God, the mind as such is discarded.

578. Papa's sadhana and its fulfilment

MH: How many years did it take you to realise God?

Papa: It took him three years. But the search was tremendous. He had no thought of anything else. The whole mind was concentrated on God and he was dead to the world, and in that search he was happy as if he had got Him. After getting Him, the search disappeared – the seeker disappeared – and there has never been a cessation of God-experience. Ramdas was feeling His presence even when he was only searching for Him and trying to reach Him. When he reached Him the seeker disappeared and there was only God.

RH: That has been the state ever since, is to so?

Papa: Yes. Ramdas was feeling in his sadhana days just like a child being guided by the mother. All along the way he was feeling happy. After reaching Him the child disappeared in the mother. There was only mother, only God inside, outside and everywhere. There was nothing but God. The servant became the Master and the child became the Mother. What a wonderful thing in three years! After that he went round everywhere telling people to find God within themselves, to remember Him by taking His holy Name and not run after the useless and perishable things of the world. With worldly enjoyments, you crave for more and more. There is no contentment. When you find God within you, all your desires are fulfilled, whereas there is no fulfilment of your ambitions for external things.

MH: I know, Papa. Worldly things mean nothing to us now. All we want is God.

Papa: When you find God there is peace and fulfilment of all desires. All the rivers flow towards the ocean and become one with the ocean. Till the river reaches the ocean it goes on making all sorts of sounds and taking devious courses through hills and rocks. When it reaches the ocean it finds perfect union, is quiet and is at peace. God is the ocean. Let us go and meet and be lost in it. Then our life mission is fulfilled.

Having been immersed in conversation, they lost count of time. Coffee and tea arrived which brought them to the consciousness of time and space.

MH: What is the time now?

RH: Quarter past three.

MH: Ah!

Papa: When we enjoy intense happiness we do not know how time passes. When we talk about God and merge in God we transcend time and space. Therefore it is said Infinity and Eternity is Amrita – the sweetest thing. Bliss is Amrita. Eternal joy is Amrita. Eternal joy is God.

RH: We spend hours together talking about God and losing count of time.

MH: We used to talk about God and sometimes we were so much absorbed in Him that our physical bodies would disappear, as it were, and there would be only waves and waves of light between us. This happened many times.

Papa: When Ramdas was in Limbdi, the Thakore Sahib would take him to his palace every morning. Ramdas would go on talking. The Thakore Sahib was so much absorbed that he forgot everything else. One day when he looked at the watch, it was past twelve although he was due at Court at eleven. He suddenly got up saying, 'How fast time has passed!' In that bliss we forgot the body. We were above time and space.

Some years ago when Ramdas was here in the ashram he got a wire from a friend asking him to be present at a function in his house and to bless the ceremony. Ramdas sent a reply wire sending blessing and saying that Ramdas would be with them in spirit. But the friends were not satisfied. They wired again saying that they wanted him to be physically present.

RH: Did they wire, 'Acknowledge Spirit. Please send body'? (a roar of laughter)

It was time to close the talks. All got up.

October 20, 1957

579. A cradle ceremony

Sadhu Bhandasji, who would be leaving the ashram the following day, wanted to have a group photo taken with Papa, Mataji and some other ashramites. The photograph was taken at about 5 p.m. and after that, Papa, Mataji and almost all the ashramites started walking towards Mukund Rao's house to attend the cradle ceremony of the ten-day-old child of Radhe. Mataji had asked Sadhu Bhandasji, Mr and Mrs Hamilton and all those present there to go with Papa. She said, "No separate invitation is necessary for you all as you are going with Papa." So it was a very large group that walked up to Mukund Rao's house. Many people including a number of children were already waiting there. Radhe and her husband Guru greeted Papa and Mataji and placed the baby at their feet, in the hall. Then the scene shifted to the room in which was a small beautifully decorated cradle. Papa was requested to sit on a chair near the cradle. Guru and Radhe together performed pada-pooja to Papa and requested him to put the child in the cradle. As soon as the baby was placed in the cradle, the face of the baby brightened and there was a strange glow in it. Mataji standing by the cradle, asked Papa to swing the cradle for a while. Many presents were given to the baby by those who had come for the occasion. Mataji with Papa's permission presented the child with a set of ashram books in English. Though in the beginning Papa was not in favour of presenting books to the baby who would not be able to make use of them for some years, he later agreed, as Mataji seemed bent upon it. There were about twenty-four books and two photographs, one of Papa and one of Mataji, all autographed. While autographing the books, Papa remarked, "This boy is going to be a great scholar. He is getting presents of books right from now." Mataji had already packed each book separately and given almost every person a book for presentation to the boy.

Presentation over, Papa went from the room and sat outside in the compound where prasad was distributed. The party returned to the ashram. Mataji with a few lady members stayed back.

October 21, 1957

Sadhu Bhandasji left for Coimbatore in the morning. In the evening a letter from Sadanand B Nagarkatti intimated that HH Sri Swami Anandashram had consented to visit the ashram in the first week of December.

October 23, 1957

580. Go-pooja

Go-pooja day. The cows were given a wash with warm water, decorated with garlands, worshipped and fed with sweets. Mataji was in the goshala, supervising the arrangements from the beginning. Later she called Papa to the goshala where Papa spent fifteen minutes.

Being Diwali day, a lot of crackers and so on were brought and distributed by Papa to about fifty children of the locality.

581. Bliss in longing or attaining?

2 p.m. Mildred and Ralph Hamilton were with Papa in his room. Papa had been reading to them interesting passages from some books. As they came and sat, he took the book ‘Ramdas Speaks’ and started reading from it the conversation he had with the abbot of a monastery in Paris. In the course of the reading, Mildred asked Papa to tell her about his vision of Christ, which Papa did in detail. He said he had given a description of the vision to a Roman Catholic father in Geneva. He turned to the relevant page and read out the description. He said, "When Ramdas thinks of that vision Jesus seems to be sitting before him.”

RH: What was the expression of Jesus – sad?

Papa: No, it was perfect peace and serenity.

The reading continued for a while till Papa suddenly stopped and said, "Some people believe that there is more joy in longing for God than in actually meeting Him. The Sufis believe so. They only want to aspire after God but not to attain Him. They say that if one attains what one aspires to, due to familiarity, one loses all love for what is attained. They say, 'Oh Lord, let me pine for You all the time'. They quote the example of the herd of goats that run after drinking water. They see water at a distance and with all joy run there, reach the place and drink to their satisfaction. Now they have no more love for the water, for which they were craving so far. Standing in the water, they dirty it."

MH: Papa, do you subscribe to the above view?

Papa: No, Ramdas does not believe in it.

MH: Papa can be sure that we have as much love for you now as we had before we came to you.

Papa: Because you do not consider this as your final experience. You want to get him full.

The reading went on for some time further. Papa stopped and said, "Everything happens for good."

RH: Even wars?

Papa: Yes. Even wars are for good because they bring peace later.

MH: Papa, these wars have not brought peace. There have been many wars recently and they never brought true peace.

Papa: Now people do not want any more war. They want peace. This is the result of many wars that occurred. Ramdas has been watching the world situation. Lately the situation in Syria has been giving some anxiety. Now the tension has been eased a little bit.

RH: This trouble is all due to the communist propaganda.

MH: Just see what Russia did to the people of Hungary. What an amount of suffering they caused them.

Papa: Russia has changed her policies now. She is also working for peace; so also the other communist countries. We talk about the atrocities of the communist countries. We are not paragons of virtue. We have our own defects. We also do harm to ourselves. Let us remember the maxim: 'Keep your house in order before you find disorder in other houses. Judge not others lest ye be judged.' All right. These are all points outside our province. Let us continue the reading.

Papa finished reading the chapter relating to his talk with the abbot.

582. When killing helps the killed

MH: Papa, you told us a couple of days ago when we were talking about insects, that if they are troublesome, we may kill them and by so doing we are only helping them to evolve. But in these passages you say that by killing animals we are retarding their evolution.

Papa: You retard their evolution when you kill them out of hate and selfishness. But when you kill them with a feeling of oneness with God they evolve higher. You can have this feeling only if you have realized your oneness with God. Otherwise you kill out of hate and selfishness and thereby retard their progress or evolution.

MH: How do you explain Jesus' words that man may use meat for the sustenance of his body?

Papa: Before you eat meat you say grace. Before killing the animal you offer prayer to God. Then you are free from the effect of killing and the animals that are killed evolve higher. Here the killing and eating are done as a divine act. In Bengal and other places Hindus eat meat. They first offer the animal to God in the temple and then eat the same as sanctified food. This practice has however been stopped now as Gandhiji started a campaign to stop killing of animals as sacrifice in temples. ‘Bhagavad Gita’ which appears in the great scripture ‘Mahabharata’, like a diamond encased in a golden case, gives us a clear idea of the subject. Arjuna was faced with a very serious problem. He had to kill his own relatives, gurus and close friends who were standing on the opposite side to fight. Here Sri Krishna, for the sake of establishing righteousness on the earth and for releasing millions of people from the tyranny and oppression of the evil-doers, taught Arjuna the Truth and asked him to fight them. But such killing by which the killer can remain unaffected, and the killed made to evolve higher is possible only if the person who kills has known the Truth, that is, if he is a saint. All others who kill, do so out of selfishness and hatred.

MH: What do you think then about capital punishment?

Papa: Wrong. You can put the criminals in prison or reformatory. They may be kept under restraint. Government can do such things. This will enable the criminals to transform themselves and become good citizens. They are not born criminals. Only harsh treatment from the public has hardened them and made them criminals. We must remember that not all criminals are behind the bars. There are many moving freely in society. We take them for good people; they appear humble, but at heart are most cruel. They harm people in a deceptive way and many of us are inwardly criminals.

We have in the Hindu mythology an instance of a robber who was one of the worst criminals and who waylaid people and killed them after looting them. Later, the robber became the great saint Valmiki, because of his contact with Sage Narada. This was a most wonderful transformation. So if you want anybody to change from bad to good life, you must bring him into contact with a saint. By such contacts some persons suddenly change while some others change gradually.

October 24, 1957

583. "Seek ye the kitchen!"

Papa came to have a word with Mataji and sat on the seat in the veranda of the kitchen. Subbaram was with him. S had gone to Papa's room to bring a cup of water. When S returned, he heard Papa laughing loud. He told S, "If you see God it is as good as your having seen everything else." S could guess the remark was ironical and something funny had happened.

S: Papa, what has happened? What is the fun?

Papa: A man came here just now and stood in front of the kitchen. Ramdas asked him what he wanted. He replied that he came to see the ashram. Then Ramdas told him that there were so many things to see on the other side. He did not care to listen to what Ramdas said. There was fine smell coming from the kitchen. He stood there like a statue, gazing at the kitchen. Then Ramdas thought he believed that if he saw the kitchen it was as good as having seen everything in the ashram!

S added: "First seek ye the kitchen and all else will be added unto you."

584. What should be done to see God

2.30 p.m. Mildred and Ralph Hamilton entered Papa's room. Papa was reading the Reader's Digest and a few books were on the teapoy at his side. There were two chairs in front of him. Mildred sat on one, but Ralph preferred to sit on the floor. Papa immediately sent for cushions from the bhajan-hall and Ralph sat on one. Papa started reading out a short article from the Reader's Digest which he liked as it dealt with God. Towards the close, Ralph remarked: "In recent years there has been a number of articles on spiritual matters in magazines, television and radio."

Papa: Yes, it is true. Now people feel the need for God more keenly. Ramdas will read out to you something from the current issue of The Vision. See how they like our books. Perhaps Ramdas is blowing his own trumpet.

Papa then read, 'Appreciation by Western readers.'

"Just a note to thank you with all my heart for sending me ‘Ramdas Speaks Volume III’. I love every word of Ramdas' books. They are most enlightening and answer many questions for me."

"Thank you so very much for Vol. II of ‘Ramdas Speaks’, Ramdas' expression of utter love and esteem for God indicates his beautiful service to the needs of God's people. His heart is filled with love. This is what is meant by love – it comes into the hearts of all who serve the needs of others and in turn the server's need is taken care of too.."

Papa closed the magazine and looked at Mildred with a beaming smile and asked, "How do you like that?" He patted himself on the back for the credit given by the Western readers for his books. This act provoked so much laughter as to draw the attention of those in the bhajan-hall. When all were quiet, he said: "All credit goes to Ram. All glory is to Him. We are nothing. He is everything. When He handles us, we become everything."

Papa then took ‘The Book of Mirdad’ and started reading from it at random. The passages were instructive and thought-provoking. He read, 'Those who do not find God in their heart...' Finishing this sentence Papa turned his look towards the Hamiltons with his sweet smile and said, "We have to find God in our own hearts. There is no use running for Him here and there. No use worshipping Him outside us. Of course, external worship should, in course of time, help us to turn our mind within and find God there. But the end is not the external search itself. God is within us and we have to realise this truth. You must have heard of the musk-deer. It carries musk in its navel and thinks that the smell of the musk comes from somewhere outside. So it runs here and there to find musk but does not find it anywhere outside."

RH: To see God within what should be done?

Papa: One should pray to God within to reveal Himself. One should meditate on Him. First of all, one has to know and believe that God is within. Then only one can direct all one's prayers to Him within. The mind must be attuned to Him constantly. Then alone can He be realised in one's heart.

RH: But meditation is difficult.

Papa: Constant practice is necessary. In the ‘Bhagavad Gita’ the same has been discussed. Arjuna, after hearing something about divine knowledge from the lips of Lord Krishna, asks the Lord how he can control the mind which is restless as the wind and hard to still. The Lord answers that it is, no doubt, difficult to control the mind but it is possible to do so with abhyasa and vairagya. Abhyasa means practice and vairagya is dispassion. You should have regular practice of the spiritual disciplines and you must have absolute dispassion for worldly things. You must be completely detached from them.

Dispassion comes by discrimination. You must know that all these things in the world are perishable, and by attaching ourselves to them, thinking that we will be happy, we get nothing but sorrow and misery. The happiness that you get in the world is momentary and is always followed by unhappiness. So we must not run after these illusory things. Real happiness comes only from God. We must get detached from the worldly things and attach ourselves to God who is absolute bliss and peace. When our mind is attached to God it will think of Him constantly. Then meditation becomes easy. Steady and constant practice is also required to attain quicker results.

RH: They may have to take several births to attain to that standard of meditation.

Papa: No, no. Pray to God earnestly and He will come to your rescue. Of course, when you pray you must have that much faith. By His grace everything is possible. If man tries to succeed by his own effort, he fails. If he fails, so much the better for him because he learns that he is weak and helpless. In that helplessness God's grace will flow into Him. When we think we are capable of doing something, He will leave us to do it.

In this connection Ramdas remembers a story. A devotee of Shiva was passing through a forest. He had in his possession a few valuable articles. Seeing him, a robber wanted to waylay him. When the robber drew near, the devotee knew that he would be robbed of his valuables. He shouted aloud the name of Shiva and cried for help. Shiva was then talking to his consort Parvati in Kailas. Shiva suddenly left Parvati and came away without telling her. But in a few seconds Shiva went back. To Parvati's question, Shiva explained: 'A devotee was in danger and called for My help. As I was going to him I saw him taking a stone in his hand and was about to fling it at the robber. When the devotee thought he could take care of himself I had nothing to do and so I came away'. You see how God is ready to come to our help when we call on Him in a state of helplessness. But if we have a trace of feeling that we can help ourselves He will not come to our aid.

585. Aham Brahmasmi

Papa continued: "When we are talking about Shiva and Parvati, Ramdas will tell you something else. Shiva used to go away from Kailas leaving Parvati alone. He never felt sad that he had to go alone as he had realised his oneness with all beings and knew there was really no separation from Parvati. But Parvati did not have this experience. She felt lonely when Shiva was away from her. One day she requested Shiva to give her the same experience as he had, so that she also would not feel his absence. Shiva agreed and asked her to sit for meditation in a particular posture and close her eyes. When she did so, he asked: 'What do you see in your mental vision'?

Parvati: I see your form because you are the beloved of my heart.

Shiva: Seeing my form is no good. You must take your mind deeper. What do you see now?

Parvati: I hear the sound OM.

Shiva: That won't do. When you hear the sound the hearer and the heard are separate. They must merge into one. Go deeper still. What do you see now?

Parvati: I see flashes of light.

Shiva: When you see light, the seer and the seen are separate. They must merge into one. Go deeper still. What do you see now?

There was no answer.

Shiva asked again: 'What do you see now? What do you see now?"

There was no answer. She had merged in the Infinite Existence of God, the universal Self. She no longer remained as a separate entity to say what she saw or heard. After some time when she returned to world-consciousness, the words 'Aham Bramasmi' issued forth from her. She had experienced her absolute oneness with the infinite Existence and could no longer feel the separation from Shiva.

What that absolute experience is cannot be described. Those who have experienced it know what it is, but they cannot tell others what it is. It cannot be expressed in words. In this connection Ramdas will tell you another story. There was a brahmin who had two boys whom he sent to the hermitage of a sage for twelve years for study. During their stay with their master the boys learnt everything and returned home. Their father called one of them and asked him to tell him what Brahman is. The boy went on quoting from the scriptures all that he could remember to tell his father about Brahman. The father then called the other boy and asked him the same question repeatedly. The boy kept silent. There was no answer at all. The father then said, 'Son, you have found Him, but your brother has not.' Brahman cannot be expressed in words. Those who have found Him do not try to explain what He is. They remain in silence. Silence is Brahman. OM is the first sound that rose from the bosom of the Infinite Existence of God.

As though to break the silence that ensued, a devotee asked a question about the scriptures and Papa answered at length, describing the events as having actually happened historically.

MH: Papa, I would like to verify a revelation which God has given me. You speak of the scriptures as actual history of the places, people and events described. Is it not true as God has shown me that every scripture tells not only about the creation or expression of God in the form of the universe and various stellar systems but also that they tell the history of the evolution of every man from the human to the divine?'

Papa looked straight at MH and said in a very powerful voice: "You have made Him say it." She said afterwards that as Papa looked at her and spoke those words so forcefully, it was as though a bolt of lightning had gone right through the centre of her head. It was a great moment of Truth.