← The Gospel of Swami RamdasHis talks, as recorded by Swami Satchidananda

1953-12-07

Chapter 38

Rajkot, December 7, 1953

375. Requisites for Brahmacharya

Upendra Bhatt's residence. Papa was alone with S when a young couple entered the room. They were BN Roy and his wife, of Saurashtra residing in South Africa who had recently come from there. Both of them sat before Papa. Roy had been in touch with Papa through correspondence. He was a young man of thirtythree years and his wife was twentyfive years old.

Roy explained to Papa how he was carrying on his sadhana and how his wife was co-operating with him.

Roy: Swamiji, though my wife is not much after worldly things, she wants to have two children.

Papa: Ah, she wants to be a mother. It is natural. Be satisfied with one child. Let that be the limit. By having too many children you will be caught in the maze of the world.

Mrs Roy: One will do, Swamiji. We will be satisfied with that.

Roy: Is a life of brahmacharya possible?

Papa: For you at this age and in your circumstances it will be difficult. Brahmacharya is not mere physical continence. It must be mental also. Mere physical control is harmful. One should be pure in mind like a child.

Roy: I am happy to say that my wife is not at all sex-mad. My desire for sex is more than hers. So she is not at all an obstacle.

Papa: You are right. Ramdas has seen that women can control the sex-desire better then men.

Roy: What should I do to control this desire?

Papa: It requires intense sadhana. Your mind must be made to dwell always in God.

Roy: Will control of food help?

Papa: Food helps to some extent, but not fully. By sadhana alone one will be able to control it, but eradication of the desire is more difficult. It is possible only on Self-realisation. However, you can start with physical control by mutual understanding. This is not a one-sided matter. Both have to co-operate. Brahmacharya is good for health, concentration and progress on the spiritual path. You may rest assured no spiritual progress is possible without brahmacharya. Absolute control by thought and deed is necessary. The more you lose the vital fluid the more your mind becomes restless. The less you waste it, the better your control of the mind.

Roy: Should I spend some time in solitude?

Papa: Solitude is helpful. What is more important is the company of saints. Whenever possible, court their company. That will help you a good lot. Take God's name constantly. There are no restrictions for it. It is meant for the most civilised as also for the most uncivilised. Do not give up Ram Nam on any account. Worldly engagements should not stand in the way of your sadhana.

Mrs Roy then spoke about some of her domestic difficulties. Papa gave her some advice and asked her to solve the problems with love and compromise.

Papa: Ramdas has explained to you everything. Now he must get ready for the next programme – talks. If you want to listen to the talks you may go and sit in the hall there.

376. Blessing a couple

After the evening bhajan at Saraswat Boarding, Papa and Mataji were led by Joshiji to the marriage pandal to bless the bride and the bridegroom. They spent a few minutes there, when the rituals were in progress. The couple garlanded them and had their blessings. Then Joshiji allowed Papa and Mataji to leave.

Mataji: Bring some sweets and ask Papa to take at least a bit.

Joshiji was happy at the suggestion of Mother. Someone ran in and brought sugarcandy. Papa took a small piece, Mataji another, and the rest was distributed to those present.

377. Rebirth after moksha

7.30 p.m. Papa was back at Upendra Bhatt's house and after his evening milk was pacing the large room. S was with him.

S: Papa said in the talks yesterday that for one who attained moksha, there is no rebirth. Does this answer not require further clarification?

Papa: He may take birth again for helping humanity. That is left to God's will. But it is quite different from the ordinary birth in the state of bondage.

S: When Papa says 'he' may come again, is there any trace of 'he' left on the attainment of moksha? Is moksha not the final dissolution of individuality?

Papa: Not necessarily final dissolution, but surely there is the dissolution of the lower individuality. A subtle type of higher individuality is maintained.

S: In that case, does it not go against the principle of advaita?

Papa: Ramdas is not a pure advaitin. He believes in the co-existence of dvaita and advaita. The jivanmukta retains his higher subtle individuality; he moves about and acts in the world realising that he and God are one. Ramdas in this body is active and doing things. Whatever he may do, he is at the same time conscious that he is the eternal and all-pervading Reality. So, in that state there is separation and unity simultaneously.

S: Is there no state when the jivanmukta can lose his individuality in the One and be free of birth?

Papa: That is possible. That is what the jnanis do. They do not believe in the existence of the higher individuality at all. As soon as the lower individuality is dissolved, they cease to exist as separate entities. There cannot be any rebirth for them. Sankaracharya was one of that type.

378. The best way to control the mind

It was 8.30 p.m. Jivanlal Bhatt (Upendra Bhatt's father) came to inform Papa that it was time for the programme of talks and that a few devotees were waiting in the hall. In a few minutes Papa was there, talking to the devotees.

A devotee: What is the best way to control the mind?

Papa: By vichara or discrimination you should distinguish the Real from the unreal, the Imperishable from the perishable. The perishable and changing nature of the world attracts you so much, but does not give you any peace. So, instead of involving yourself in the impermanent and changing things, attune your mind always to the Real – the imperishable Truth. Attachment to the perishable brings distraction and sorrow.

To detach the mind from worldly objects, vairagya or dispassion is necessary. Without vairagya the mind will repeatedly run after worldly objects and you cannot have any concentration on God. To control the mind you should constantly direct it towards the divine. This requires continuous practice.

379. Infinite joy of God-vision

When Ramdas started sadhana, he had only a faint idea of the joy he would get by attaining God-vision and experience. But after attainment he finds that the bliss he is experiencing is a million times more than what he had imagined it would be. He feels that even thousands of lives sacrificed for attaining this state are nothing at all. When Ramdas sees people pursuing the petty pleasures of the world, without aspiring for this wonderful experience, he is really sorry for them. The human beings alone are fit to realise this Truth. Why should they not put forth all their efforts to attain this spiritual perfection?

Realising Him, you must remain His child. There is joy in it. It is not that one should simply lose oneself in Him. You must be a child and play with Him. There is no joy in merely becoming sugar. You must also be like an ant enjoying the taste of it.

380. Transcending the gunas

A devotee: What is it that stands in the way of our realising Him?

Papa: There are three screens. One is transparent, the second is red and the third dark. The transparent screen is called sattwa guna, the red one is rajas and the dark is tamas. By sadhana you must tear up these screens one by one; first the dark screen of tamas, then the red one of rajas. When these two are gone you are almost face to face with the divine as there is only the transparent screen of sattwa between you and the divine. Having reached this state many think they have reached the goal and stop practice. As soon as sadhana is given up, the red and dark screens again come up and block the way and it takes a long time to remove them. So, intense and ceaseless sadhana should continue even after one has reached suddha sattwa. Then alone can the final screen be removed and you will realise your oneness with the divine by transcending the three gunas.

December 9, 1953

381. Realisation not a mental state.

7.30 a.m. Jivanlal Bhatt and Hiralal Pandya were sitting in front of Papa. Jivanlal never tired of expressing his gratitude to Papa for his visit to Rajkot and stay with Upendra Bhatt. Just then Upendra Bhatt also joined the group.

Papa: The marriage for which Ramdas came here seems to be only an excuse. There is some other purpose behind the visit. After all, he spent only a few minutes at the marriage pandal, whereas four hours of bhajan and two to three hours of talks are going on daily here.

9.30 p.m. After the usual questions and answers, Jayantilal Jobanputra, his brother, Upendra Bhatt and others followed Papa to his room and sat near him.

Jobanputra: Yesterday Mr Vyas (District Judge) wanted to ask Papa a question. He was hesitating. We discussed the question between ourselves; he is not satisfied with what I said. His question is: 'Is realisation not merely a state of mind arrived at by rational thinking'?

Papa: Realisation is something far beyond the scope of the mind. Mind has limits and one who is still grouping in the mental region, is under limitations. One has to go beyond all limitations set by the mind and live in the infinite Existence.

Jobanputra: Is the mind not used for the purpose?

Papa: Of course, the mind does help you to a certain extent. But the mental activities have to be finally stopped or the mind stilled. Realisation is an experience of the Absolute and is not a mental state.

382. Vichara, bhakti, intuition

Jobanputra: How can bhakti bring about realisation then? It is said jnana alone can give liberation to one. So 'vichara’ must be the path and not bhakti.

Papa: What is bhakti after all? It is like this. First you begin to discriminate the Real from unreal – atma-anatma vichara: give up all thoughts about the anatman or transitory objects and attune yourself to the formless, nameless, changeless (i.e., nirguna) atman or brahman. As the mind cannot meditate on the attributeless brahman, the bhaktas give it a form and worship it. Through the worship of form you reach the formless. Thus both vichara and bhakti lead to jnana.

Jobanputra: What is intuition?

Papa: Intuition is the outcome of the harmony of an illumined intellect and a purified heart. In whatever way intuition prompts you to act, you are always right. The world may criticise your actions; you won't heed it and you will have no regret.

Bombay, December 10, 1953

383. Papa with brother and sister

Papa left Rajkot at 11 a.m., reached Bombay at 1.30 p.m. and drove to the residence of Trasi Sundar Rao at Khar. Papa came to know that Padukone Narasinga Rao (Papa's eldest brother), who was ill, was anxious to meet Papa. Papa thought of sending a car to bring him to Khar but before that Narasinga Rao himself came in, gave a couple of oranges and prostrated. He was very weak and having fever also. His daughter-in-law accompanied him.

Papa: We were thinking of sending a car to pick you up from your home. How did you come now?

N Rao: We came by bus. I was so anxious to see you that I thought of hurrying up as early as possible. I do not know if I will be able to see you again. I am eightythree now. My health is failing.

Papa: Is she (referring to his wife who had passed away a few months back) calling you up there? (Pointing upwards).

N Rao had a hearty laugh in which others also joined.

N Rao: She calls me from there, but I ask her to wait.

Papa: Perhaps she is feeling lonely without you.

N Rao: May be. That is why she is calling me. Next time when you come, I may or may not be living.

Papa: May or may not be. It is not in our hands.

N Rao: She (his wife) had a wonderful death. She had absolutely no trouble. One afternoon she said she was feeling heavy in the head. Next moment she sat down, repeated Ram Nam and left the body. For the whole day I am also repeating Ram Nam with japa mala in hand. Whenever there is some pain in the body, remembrance of God comes automatically. So, at the time of death I hope He will give me also His remembrance.

After a few more minutes of jolly conversation, Papa and Mataji started for the residence of Narottamdas Shah in Matunga, to see the latter's wife who was seriously ill. The next day being the day of Champak's marriage, Narrottamdas was anxious to see that she was rid of her illness so that the marriage function might go off smoothly.

Papa took Narasinga Rao and his daughter-in-law in the same car, dropped them at their house, and proceeded to Matunga.

Papa spent an hour at Narottam's house. His wife was too ill to get up. But when she was told that Papa had come, she collected all her strength and came out of the room and bowed at Papa's feet. She was persuaded to lie down and Papa and Mataji sat near her cot. She was happy that Papa had come to bless her son Champak and his bride. She felt sure the wedding would go off smoothly and by Papa's blessings she would be able to attend the function.

Leaving the house, Papa went to the residence of Chandrasekhar B Trikannad, where lived his mother, Lakshmi Devi (Papa's sister). She was too old to move about and was anxious to meet Papa. She was immensely happy to receive Papa and Mataji. She expressed her eagerness to live at Anandashram. Dissuading her, Papa said that it would be better for her to remain in Bombay as she would feel very lonely when they (Papa and Mataji) were on tour, and as they were coming to Bombay often, she could meet them.

Khar, December 11, 1953

384. Celibacy and women

Papa and Mataji left Khar at 11 a.m. for lunch at Narottamdas' place and returned at 1.30 p.m. In the evening they went for Champak's wedding function at Madhav Baug to bless the couple. A girl student of the intermediate class had been corresponding with Papa about the problems of life. Papa last wrote to her a long letter expressing his views as well as those of Mataji. She was with Papa that afternoon for about an hour.

The girl: Papa, I could not clearly understand your last letter.

Papa: In that Ramdas had made it clear that if you want to remain unmarried and lead a pure celibate’s life, and at the same time have all the ambitions of life fulfilled – like becoming a doctor and so on – that is not possible. If you have worldly ambitions, lead a worldly life. Otherwise you must be prepared to renounce all worldly connections as Mataji did, and dedicate your life to God. Then alone absolute celibacy is possible. In the world there is many a temptation for an unmarried woman, and she is apt to fall.

The girl: Are there not such temptations even in married life?

Papa: In married life you do not go astray so easily. Your association with your partner will give you no room for disorderly conduct and you will be leading a controlled, happy and peaceful life.

The girl: I dread the possibility of bearing children.

Papa: If you want to enjoy sense-pleasures you must naturally bear the after-effects. When there is pleasure there is also sorrow. That is what you get in worldly life. If you give up everything and dedicate your life to God, you must boldly walk the path. Mataji did it and she never turned to worldly pleasures again. You must know brahmacharya is a state of perfect purity of mind. It is not merely physical control. Many unmarried women living the worldly life may not remain chaste and yet may pose to be leading a pure life – so also men may fail in the observance of brahmacharya. So, to lead an unmarried life in the world is like fighting against temptations in the open, and married life is like fighting from within a fort, as Sri Ramakrishna puts it.

The girl: Papa, I think of you often, but why is it that I see only Mataji in the dream?

Papa: Because we are both one.

Ramdas Ashram, Bhavnagar, December 12, 1953

385. Don't insult saints

Papa was back from Bombay by plane. He was to stay till the end of January. The ashram was constructed by Gunvantrai Kamdar. Papa had come for the opening of the ashram in March that year. The opening ceremony was grand and a large number of devotees came from various parts of the country. The devotees there expressed their desire that Papa should stay at the new ashram two or three months every year. The object was to enable the devotees of Saurashtra to have his darshan and company every year, and to save Papa the strain of going from place to place in Saurashtra.

Gunvantrai Kamdar and his brother Sumatilal Kamdar had arranged for all conveniences in the ashram for Papa's stay and also for the devotees who would come for Papa's darshan. All were provided with food from one kitchen. Sumatilal Kamdar had made these arrangements nicely, to the minutest detail. A large number of devotees gathered for bhajan morning and evening, and one hour was set apart every afternoon for satsang – question and answer session.

A couple of hours after Papa's arrival, the Bihari, who was asked to go to Girnar, came inside the ashram compound but was prevented by the gate-keeper from entering the ashram hall. In the afternoon, when Papa was in the hall, he suddenly dashed in and fell at Papa's feet. By then Papa had received all the information about him. After Papa's departure to Rajkot, Sumatilal Kamdar gave him a blanket and some money and asked him to go to Girnar as instructed by Papa. But he threw away the blanket and money and had a few hot words with Sumatilal. He had then disappeared for two days. When asked why he returned, he replied, "I had been to Girnar. There is nothing there. I want only Papa and Mataji. I cannot live away from them."

After prostrating at Papa's feet he was standing and gazing at Papa's face.

Papa (gravely): Why did you come back from Girnar?

Bihari: I did not find anything there. I wanted to obey you and went with the idea of staying there, but something pulls me back to you. How can I live away from you and Mataji? I have no control over myself. Some strange power has taken possession of me. I will stay on here with you and follow you wherever you go.

Papa: Nothing doing. We cannot permit one like you to stay with us. You may have love for us, but you abuse and insult those who love Ramdas. Is this the way you love Ramdas? You had angry words with Sumatilal. The other day you spoke in insulting terms about Sai Sattar Shah and Bindu Maharaj. How can you spiritually progress if you go on insulting saints? Ramdas cannot permit you to stay here.

Bihari: Where can I go?

Papa: How and where did you live all these days? Carry on like that.

Papa then came in and the Bihari went out. He was, of course, provided with food at proper time, but was not allowed to enter the hall. He spent his time outside the ashram waiting for an opportunity to force himself in.

386. Initiation by Guru more effective

8.30 p.m. This was the time for question and answer. The bhajan-hall was half full.

A devotee: Is there any difference between the Mantra given by a saint and that taken by oneself without any initiation?

Papa: When the Guru gives you initiation, he imparts spiritual power to you with the Mantra. You miss this otherwise. This is Ramdas’ experience. Before he was imitated, he was repeating 'Ram, Ram'. Guruji gave him – 'Sri Ram Jai Ram Jai Jai Ram'. After repeating the Guru Mantra for some time, Ramdas found that though the previous Mantra gave him some degree of peace, the Guru Mantra proved far more effective and resulted in higher experiences which he had not had before. His mind became still very quickly.

387. Surrender, the essence of Ram Nam

A devotee: What is the secret of success in the repetition of Ram Nam?

Papa: The secret is to surrender yourself to God and take His name. Take the Mantra in all humility, feeling that God is within you. Know this – He is making you do all actions as also the repetition of His name. Be conscious that you are doing sadhana as willed by Him. If you repeat the Mantra in this manner, the effect will be supremely good. Give up the ego-sense. If you chant the Mantra in humility you will find how sweet it is. If not, you don't enjoy the sweetness of the Name and there is no peace gained from it. By humility Ramdas means the absence of the feeling that you, on your own, are repeating the Name. God is seated in your heart. He has sown the seed within you – the seed of Ram Nam. When you thus repeat the Mantra you are sure to get such joy that you will wish to do so constantly, without caring for food, sleep, or even for the vision of God. There is unbroken joy in the repetition itself. Your only desire then is to keep the name of God always on your tongue and mind and if at all you pray, it is for this only. Those who have tasted the Name alone can know how sweet it is. It is sweeter than nectar.

388. The best prayer

Devotee: When we pray to God, what should we ask for?

Papa: Ask for nothing of the world. If at all you pray for anything, address God thus: 'Oh God, in my foolishness I may be asking for many things. Be gracious enough not to grant my prayers. Give me only whatever you think is best for me.' This is the best prayer.

389. Papa found pure ananda in Ram Nam

Devotee: During sadhana, what form of God were you bringing before your mind?

Papa: Ramdas was concentrating on the sound of the Name. Ram Nam was so sweet that whenever he sang the Name to himself, waves of joy rose in his heart. He never cared for any form then and was fully satisfied with the joy that arose from within on chanting the Name. He was immersed in that joy so much that he forgot even the body. Then the repetition stopped. After remaining in that blissful state for a while, when he came down to body-consciousness, repetition automatically started.

In those days, whenever he attended bhajans, on hearing one or two songs, he used to get absorbed in a divine rapture and sit for hours, unconscious of the body. But now Ramdas does not go into that state because the joy or bliss he gets is there in all conditions. He sees now that all beings and things are the embodiments of that divine bliss which he is constantly experiencing. Now every particle of his body is filled with that ecstatic joy; it is controlled now, whereas in early days he could not but dance as he was overcome by that joy. He was then walking very fast, almost running, and if he had to stop, instead of standing quiet, he would be leaping about all the while. Such uncontrollable waves of joy used to thrill and overpower him. It was all due to the power of Ram Nam. Where was then the necessity for concentration on any form? Forms come and vanish but you can keep the Name on your tongue always and unceasingly.

It is like this. First Ramdas took Ram Nam and later Ram Nam caught him never to leave him till he reached the goal. It burnt away all his desires just like the fire which burns away the wood and at the end both the wood and the fire disappear. So Ram Nam having burnt the vasanas, both Ram Nam and vasanas have ceased. Now pure ananda alone remains.

Devotee: Is there anything beyond that ananda?

Papa: There is nothing beyond ananda. That itself is moksha and everything else.

390. Pilgrimages are not everything

Devotee: Has Swamiji gone to Kumbhamela at Haridwar?

Papa: Yes, Ramdas had been there once.

Devotee: Do we gain by going to such festivals?

Papa: Definitely. You get enough knocks, hits and kicks in the crowd. The most crowded period is the brahmamuhurta. That day, a bath in the Brahmakund, it is believed, gives moksha to the bather straightaway. Ramdas saw the bodies of hundreds of devotees carried to the burial ground. They were the bodies of those who were crushed in the crowd.

Experience is a great teacher in life. We know about things only after we experience them. So, you can also go to Kumbhamela and know for yourself what you gain by it. In fact, whatever you want is within yourself. Then what is the fun of going here and there in search of it?

In the village where Saint Tukaram lived, some persons started on a pilgrimage. They went to Tukaram and requested him to accompany them. Tukaram excused himself, gave them a bitter gourd and asked them to dip it in all the sacred rivers in which they bathed and also take it to all the temples they visited. Without questioning the purpose, they carried the gourd with them to all the sacred places and also dipped it in all holy rivers. On return from the pilgrimage, they handed back the bitter gourd to Tukaram, who expressed his joy in seeing them all back and wanted to celebrate that occasion with a feast. Besides many other dishes, he got prepared a curry out of the bitter gourd that was brought back after the pilgrimage. When the feast was on, the people tasted the special curry, and all of them declared it was bitter. Then Tukaram asked them: 'How can it be bitter yet? It was bitter before you took it on the pilgrimage. It had a dip in holy rivers and also visited many temples. Is it still bitter? Then it was good I did not go with you. I would only have returned with all my sins."

The essential thing is that you should lead an honest, devout and straightforward life, serve your parents, seek satsang and repeat Ram Nam constantly. Then you will spiritually evolve. Merely going to places of pilgrimage will not produce the needed change in you.