← The Gospel of Swami RamdasHis talks, as recorded by Swami Satchidananda

1956-01-14

Chapter 49

Ramdas-Ashram, January 14, 1956

525. Guru can take over prarabdha

9.15 a.m. Bhajan was going on. S and Mataji were in Papa's room. Baba, who came from Nagpur and staying in the Ashram, has been treating Beloved Papa for his diabetes and other complaints. He was also treating S for the headache from which he was suffering for the last many years.

Mataji (to S): Baba says he is sure that, by the treatment he is giving you for your headache, you will be all right. He has diagnosed your case well and is confident.

S: Today I found great relief after the morning treatment.

Mataji: Why is it that all others who meet Papa and get his blessings get well, whereas those in the ashram get sick?

S could not give a reply. He said: "This you alone can answer."

Mataji: I think it is because Papa takes upon himself the diseases of others and we in the ashram share it. We do not want him to suffer alone. Not that we have to ask for it specifically. But the very fact that we wish him to remain in good health shows that we are prepared to partake of his physical sufferings. I have seen clear cases when Papa took some diseases upon himself. Some years ago I noticed a white patch on Papa's body and it looked like leucoderma. I was wondering how Papa could get it all of a sudden. I wished to help him get rid of it by proper treatment. After some months when we were in Bangalore, a devotee came to Papa and told his story. He was so happy that by Papa's blessings he was cured of his leucoderma. When he had the trouble and had a lot of patches on his body, he wrote a letter to Papa who sent him blessings for the cure. Immediately, his cure started and in a few months he was all right. Then I could infer that Papa had taken over the disease of this devotee.

S: When did that disappear from Papa's body?

Mataji: It disappeared in a few months. In the early days, when I heard the same about Sri Ramakrishna, I doubted whether the Guru could really take on the prarabdha of his disciples. Papa showed me then clearly that it was possible.

The Guru can take the prarabdha from anybody and he can bear it easily. That which is like a mountain is to him only a mist. Have you heard the story of a Guru being affected by Sani (Saturn)?

S: No, do tell me please.

526. Saturn’s influence on a saint

Mataji: Once a saint was to be affected by Sani. Sani came to the saint and told him that the saint was going to be under his influence at least for a short while. Ordinary persons would be under the influence of Sani for years together. But with the saint, it had to be at least for a few minutes. The saint agreed.

The saint was going alone on a yatra. On the way some devotees gave him a watermelon which he put in his bag. It was a broken melon and when the saint was taking it in a bag, water – red in colour – was leaking through it. Meanwhile the Yuvaraja of that country, who had gone for hunting was missing, and the king with his courtiers was out searching for him. The king saw this saint (he did not know that he was a saint) carrying a bag from which blood (the watermelon juice) was dripping. He immediately got down from his horse, snatched the bag from the saint and looked into it. In his eyes the melon appeared to be his son's head. The saint was arrested and was about to be executed. The saint calmly prayed for a few minutes' time before the order was carried out and it was granted. Suddenly the Yuvaraja turned up. Surprised, the king examined the bag again and saw clearly that it was but a melon. In his embarrassment the king asked the saint what it was all about. Then he explained that it was the result of few minutes' evil influence of Sani upon him!

That is what happens with saints. They take on any suffering and bear it easily. What others have to bear for years is worked out by them in a few minutes.

527. Meeting with Sri Ma Anandamayi

10 a.m. Some devotees were sitting before Papa. Papa remarked: "Ramdas is a little child. But Mataji says Ramdas is obstinate sometimes. That is a fact. When Ramdas met Ma Anandamayi some years back, we talked together for some time. She addressed Ramdas as Pitaji. Ramdas objected to it and said he was only a child and she was his mother. She said, 'No'. Then Ramdas told her that he was actually a child, because he had no teeth, and that she was his mother because she had teeth! Ma Anandamayi laughed and had nothing more to say.

January 15, 1956

528. Dialogue at the Palace

Although indifferent health had made Papa resolve to have his lunch only at the ashram for some length of time, he accepted the invitation to lunch at the palace with the Maharaja and family since the Yuvaraja would shortly be leaving Bhavnagar.

At 10.45 a.m., when Papa reached the palace along with Mataji, Sai Sattar Shah and a few others – a dozen persons – were at the portico to receive the party. The Maharaja himself came out and led the party to the spacious hall where he performed pooja to Papa in accordance with vedic rites. He and the Yuvaraja garlanded Papa. The Maharani garlanded Mataji and Papa too. The Maharaja expressed his great joy in having Papa again for lunch as also Sai Sattar Shah who with his fine voice could entertain devotees with devotional songs.

Papa: It is very gracious of Sai Sattar Shah to come here every time when Ramdas is here. Saints are so kind and gracious.

Sai Sattar Shah with folded hands bowed to Papa at his remarks saying that it was due to Papa's love and grace he was able to come.

Maharaja: I cannot understand this paradox. Swamiji says it is by Sattar Shah's grace and Sattar Shah says it is by Swamiji's grace.

Papa: Ramdas is only a child, and saints, as forms of his Divine Mother, take delight in coming and seeing him. Ramdas’ coming to Bhavnagar is like this. You know where there is honey, all flies rush in. People here are like honey and Ramdas is a fly that has come to drink honey. It flies wherever honey is.

Maharaja: I am so happy you have such love for the people of Bhavnagar. What you said just now shows clearly how much love you have for us.

Papa: Ramdas can definitely say that all the people of Bhavnagar enjoy satsang and bhajan. Ramdas has not seen so many congregating anywhere else in India or abroad. People here are full of love and devotion.

Maharaja: Most of them follow the bhakti marga. Bhakti marga is easy and can be practised by all without danger or complication.

The talk then turned on the few saints whom the Maharaja had occasion to serve, and the way some of them lived. He said he was very much impressed by some of them though he could not say what stage of realisation they had reached. He said, "Swamiji, you should not think I am trying to judge how far one has reached just as men judge the quality of horses by riding them. This is a common question. Many people ask who among the South Indian saints is great – Sri Aurobindo, Ramana Maharshi or Swami Ramdas? I cannot answer them. As far as I am concerned, all are one."

Papa: Ramdas is asked the same type of question. He is asked which country in the world he likes most. Ramdas’ answer is that he likes all countries alike. There is no preference for any one particular country.

The Maharaja then expressed his long-cherished desire to visit Anandashram but so far the time for it had not come as Ram had not willed it.

Papa: If you make the sankalpa, God fulfils it. Sankalpa has to be made. There is a saying of a Maharashtrian saint: 'Satya sankalpacha................ puranakari Bhagavan...........' When a satya sankalpa is made, God surely fulfils it. But everything happens by His will alone; even the sankalpa we make is possible only when He wills that we should do so. Nothing is really in our hands.

Papa was sitting on the sofa. But his legs were resting on the cold floor. The Maharaja ordered a foot-rest and also a blanket (made in the form of a coat) to be brought to cover Papa's legs. The conversation continued for some time more on various subjects – his goshala and his palace in an island at which he wished Papa should stay with him for a few days.

When after lunch the party was about to leave, the Maharani said that one of her daughters lying ill upstairs was coming down for darshan of Papa and Mataji. But someone said she could not, being too weak. Papa said she could come to the ashram for darshan when she got better and blessed her; Mataji however went up to see the girl.

The Maharaja narrated to Papa the miraculous cure of the skin trouble of Col. Ajit Singh.

Papa: Thousands of such things have happened. Many ask Ramdas to place his hands over them after some days they say they are perfectly all right.

Maharaja: When you touch them you might be wishing them well.

Papa: They ask him to place his hands over them and he just does it. Ram does the trick.

Maharaja: For us Ram and Ramdas are not different.

Papa: George knows one such instance. While in England a teacher used to come to us. He was having some stomach trouble with severe pain. On the last day of our stay he was taken to hospital. The doctors there warned him that he might have to be operated within a fortnight. On our way back from the North of England we had to pass through Nottingham where the teacher was in hospital. We went to see him. The nurse said that he was an extraordinary patient as, with all the pain he had, he was calm and serene. We met him; Mataji asked Ramdas to pass his hands over the stomach of the patient. We learnt later that when the doctors examined him again they found there was no need to perform an operation, for the trouble had disappeared. It was a great miracle.

Maharaja: More than the doctor's medicines I value your blessings.

Papa: Mataji also does a lot of miracles. She is not what she looks. If you ask her, she says, 'Go to Papa'. But she can do wonders. Her heart aches when she hears somebody is suffering. See now, your daughter is ill, she has run up. She cannot remain quiet without doing something to relieve suffering.

Mataji came back, all got up and started. The Maharaja addressing Mataji said, "Mataji, Ranisaheb is also ill and you have to do something for her too."

Mataji: Papa has said that she will be all right. So there need be no worry about it.

The Maharaja was satisfied. Papa patted the Maharaja's second son saying, "He will be all right."

January 17, 1956

529. Guru-Kripa flows to the humble

10 a.m. Papa and a few devotees were in the room after the morning bhajan. Devotees in the bhajan-hall were leaving slowly and yet there was a lot of noise there, mostly that of the children who fought among themselves daily for the flower garlands. Two boys came inside Papa's room and Mataji gave away the flowers that were there. They ran away, and all the noise stopped.

That was the usual time for Sompura's daily visit to Papa. He came, prostrated before Papa and sat near him.

Sompura: When I was here yesterday you talked of the intensity of aspiration one should have in approaching God. You said one should travel to God as if by plane or rocket. Finally you added that this is possible only by Guru-Kripa. How does Guru-Kripa come to us?

Papa: You have already got it. It is pouring on everybody in showers. You do not recognise it or you are not conscious of it. We must feel the kripa. That is all that is necessary. We, on the other hand, feel we can do anything by our own effort. We are so egoistic. For such a person Guru-Kripa is far away. We must be humble and self-effacing. When we realise that we are nothing and He is everything, we get the real experience. Our ego must go. There is a beautiful song by Kabirdas which means: 'The fish, though living in water, feels thirsty'. So are we. Guru-Kripa is pouring on us incessantly, but we still feel miserable. If you watch carefully you will see that the fish in the water cannot drink water if it swims straight. It has to slant to one side a little to drink water. So also if we keep our head erect without bending it in humility, we neither experience nor feel grace.

530. Humility – distinguishing mark of saints

All were silent for a while. Papa was looking down, his head bent. More devotes came in and sat in the room quietly. The room was full. Suddenly raising his head and looking at the devotees in front of him with a broad smile, Papa asked them: "What is the greatest trait in a saint which you can notice in his actions?"

One devotee: I find that saints maintain their peace and joy always.

Another: He talks and does everything blissfully.

Papa: Have you seen this in all saints?

Devotee: No.

Papa: Then your definition is wrong. It can be true only if it is applicable to all saints. If you find it in Ramdas and not in others, it cannot be general.

Sompura: All saints are not alike. Some are in ecstasy and do not talk at all. Another like you is a child of God. The quality of a child is absolute joy and freedom from all responsibility. That is seen very clearly in you. Whenever I come and see you here I see a blissful child. I know another saint who is very grave and reserved. If you ask us about the common trait, we cannot say – you have to tell us, please.

Papa: Saints are humble. They are nirabhiman (without pride). Even if a saint shows abhiman, there is nirabhiman in it like a child that shows abhiman. Whether a saint is blissful and childlike or grave and reserved, he is ever free from abhiman. There are three types of saints – unmattha, pisacha and baala. Those of the first category do not care even for their body. Those of the second category move about unconcerned and do so many things which might even frighten people. Those of the last category are childlike. They play about like children. All the three are equally great. We cannot say one is greater than the other.

When we go to a saint we feel we should be in his presence for a long time because he radiates peace and joy. He has no ill will towards anyone. A saint may belong to any one of the three categories or it is also possible one may have all these three qualities in him.

Sompura: For a saint it does not matter where he lives. Many saints live in Rishikesh. Many live in other places. But they are all one. They have wireless communication among themselves.

Papa: If one knows that one is everything, then with whom is he to communicate by wireless? When you realise that you and Ramdas are one why should you have any wireless communication with Ramdas? (After a pause) it may be a sort of lila. They may have communication through inwardly they are sure they all are one.

January 18, 1956

531. Realisation sudden, process gradual

2 p.m. After his siesta, Papa had some fruits and was in the room. S was near him attending to some work. The young lawyer-devotee, who was always regular in attending Papa's talks and who liked to be alone with Papa, came in. He prostrated and sat down before Papa. Papa gazing at him intently, asked: "What is the matter? How are you?"

Devotee: All right, Papa. I wanted to talk to Papa about some of my experiences.

Papa: Yes, come on, what is it?

Devotee: I have been doing sadhana for some years now, and more intensely this one year. I have been feeling the prana rising up to the eyebrow and not beyond.

Papa: It does not mater what these experiences are. As a result of these, how is your mind? Is it still? Are you free from Kama, Krodha and so on? Are you getting purer everyday?

The devotee kept silent. A little later he said: "Yes, I am getting free from all these."

Papa: Are you able to observe brahmacharya?

Devotee: Yes, I am observing brahmacharya. But I am not getting that real joy.

Papa: Oh, that is it. When you said about this to Ramdas, he was wondering. Really, if one has become free from lust, anger and so on, one will be so happy that one's whole physical frame will be filled with ananda. When you do not have this joy, your experience cannot be real.

Devotee: Sometimes I feel I am not the body.

Papa: How often do you have this? Do you have it now?

Devotee: I used to have it once in a way. Now I do not have it. When I feel I am not the body, and I am walking....

Papa: How can you say that you are walking? Say that the body is walking.

Devotee: Yes. When the body is walking I feel I am still and quiet.

Papa: That experience must be permanent. There is a time when you have no consciousness of the body or the outer world. You have the experience of your real Self which is beyond, mind and senses. After getting that experience when you become conscious of the outer world, you come to know that you are the whole universe and also that which is beyond the universe.

Devotee: I do not forget the body or the world.

Papa: Forgetting the world and the body may be only for a short time. After you have that experience and when you come to world-consciousness, your experience of the Self still remains with you. You live and move in the world knowing full well that you are the whole universe and beyond.

Devotee: I feel sometimes that the whole external world is within me.

Papa: It should not be a mere feeling. It must be an experience. There is always a danger that one thinks he has high experiences when really it is not so. He gives up sadhana and loses what he has gained. One must ceaselessly persevere till one reaches the goal which is nothing short of Self-realisation.

Devotee: Is realisation a sudden or gradual experience?

Papa: Realisation is in fact a sudden experience. But the preparation for it is gradual involving a steady and ceaseless practice.

532. A long-time devotee

Sri C Lakshminarasimhaiah was an old devotee of Papa. He had retired from service as a teacher in the then Mysore Government and he stayed with his family in Mysore. The previous time when he came to the ashram for the Silver Jubilee Celebration he had expressed his desire for intense sadhana. Papa had then advised him not to run away from household, but to resort to solitude in some temple or other at nights. After returning to Mysore he was for some time going to a cave in the Chamundeswari Hill. Papa received a letter from him stating that he had to give up the cave as it was a haunt of thieves and the policemen were after them and that he was spending the nights then in a tomb in the burial ground. He had expressed his intense aspiration to continue his solitary life and spiritual practices till he attained his goal of universal vision. Papa was happy to read the letter. He translated it to Mataji and remarked; "So far, in the cave he had the company of thieves, bats and so forth. Now he has the company of the dead. Perhaps the company of the dead is many times better than that of the living. The living are full of deceit. There is no such fear from the dead. Let him carry on the sadhana."