← The Gospel of Swami RamdasHis talks, as recorded by Swami Satchidananda

1954-01-06

Chapter 43

Ramdas-Ashram, Bhavnagar, January 6, 1954

442. Free yourself by yourself

Madhuriben had come from Ahmedabad the evening before to participate in the bhajans. She and Lalitha Devi were sitting near Papa. Papa had just taken his breakfast.

Lalitha Devi: Papa, kindly place your hands on my head.

Papa placed his hands on her head saying: “Are you satisfied now?"

Lalitha Devi: Papa, why don't you make us realise God soon?

Papa: What can Ramdas do when you do not want to realise God?

Lalitha Devi: We want to.

Papa: If you want to, you will give up your attachment to things of the world. Ramdas can only tell you what you should do and what you should not. You must do what he says.

Once a man went and embraced a thorny tree. Thorns pricked him, causing intense pain. Seeing a man passing by, he shouted for help. The man told him, 'Give up your hold and free yourself from the thorns'. But he simply tightened his hold and went on shouting to others, to set him free. Who can help him except himself? So to free yourself is in your hands and not in the hands of others.

443. Benefit of yajnas

Lalitha Devi: In Sakori they are doing many yajnas. Do these yajnas really help to realise God? Should I also do them?

Papa: Are you not already doing japa yajna? Ramdas can assure you that by performing japa yajna, one can realise God. About the other yajnas, Ramdas does not know anything as he has not done any of them.

Lalitha Devi: But they are doing them at Sakori and many other places.

Papa: They may be doing them. By such yajnas they please various gods like the wind-god, fire-god and so on and get their blessings mainly for material things. If one aims only at realising God, Ramdas thinks it is enough if one takes to japa yajna. Repetition of God's name has the power to take one to the highest state of realisation.

444. Mataji on the film show

There were some films taken at Anandashram and also of Papa's tours. As some devotees wished to see them on the screen, Papa was anxious to get a projector for the purpose and had told Sumatilal Kamdar and some others about it more than once. But none took interest in getting the projector. When Papa pressed them further Mukutbhai Kamdar arranged for one, but before doing so he had a talk with Papa in which he suggested that the pictures should not be shown to all as there were many people who criticised the film and did not like it. He said that it might be shown privately to the family group and few others after the crowd dispersed. Papa agreed.

At 9.30 p.m., the projector was brought. Only forty or fifty persons were in the hall. Papa also was there. But the operator could not start the projector. For about an hour, he went on adjusting it and it was finally ready. About fifty feet of the film was shown when the projector again gave trouble. The film was burnt in some places and the show had to be stopped. When Papa was back in his room. Mataji remarked: "I was not in favour of showing the picture to a select gathering. If some people criticise it why should it be shown at all? Showing it to a select few is worse, because there may be many who desire to see the picture and do not get the chance. A number of people asked me if there would be a show, but I had to tell them that the show would be only for a few and not for all, since some people criticised such films. I could not tell them that the film would not be shown today."

January 7, 1954

445. Heed not scandalmongers

Punit Maharaj from Ahmedabad was in Bhavnagar with his mandal. He was holding his bhajan and pravachan at the Town Hall from 5 p.m. to 6 p.m. daily for four days. Papa spent an hour there and enjoyed the pravachan greatly.

8.30 p.m. It was arranged that Punit Maharaj and party should perform bhajan at Ramdas-Ashram between 8.30 p.m. and 10 p.m. Soon after the start of the bhajan the Maharaja of Bhavnagar and his family came, paid their respects to Papa and Punit Maharaj and took their seats on chairs provided for them.

Mataji generally did not attend bhajans. So she was sitting in the room. Natverlal, Chandrakalaben, Champaben and S were with her.

Champaben (to S): The parcel of films that you required has come.

Mataji: It is only for being kept inside and not for use here. Let us not have any more pictures taken here. When people do not want them why should we have them? We shall use them where the devotees are anxious to have pictures taken and shown.

Champaben: Some may not like them. They are not able to take advantage of Papa's presence here.

Mataji: It is not that they only are unable to take advantage, but you too are not able to give your whole mind to Papa as you pay too much attention to people who talk against Papa. By turning your attention towards them, you are more and more drawn away from Papa. So, what you should do is, instead of caring for what others may say, go your own way. Otherwise you too will fall along with them.

When the ashram was started at Kasaragod, people were pouring in everyday, group after group for bhajans and talks. They were spending hours together with Papa. But when I came to Papa, those people who were so much devoted to him, gradually stayed away and in a short time there used to be none there except Papa, myself and some crows. They had misgivings about our relationship and went on talking against us with the result that their minds got prejudiced. There was a man staying with us in the ashram. One night I found he too had disappeared. Had I paid any attention to those people, I would never have been able to get absorbed in Papa's own Being. I had no time to think of anything other than Papa. As I was alone with Papa, he gave his entire attention to me and this would not have been possible if devotees in large numbers were also coming.

Natverlal: How did those devotees' behaviour act on your own mind then?

Mataji: I never paid any attention to them. Suppose you are hurrying to the railway station to catch the train, will you take note of what people talk on the way even if they are abusing you? So also I was in such a hurry to merge in Papa's Being that I had no time to care what other people said about me. If you want to be benefited by Papa's presence, you should not at all listen to what others say.

January 8, 1954

446. A loving invitation

Since the first of the month, Papa had been accepting invitations from devotees to visit their houses, and to have bhiksha also in some places. It was almost a daily feature to spend an hour or so in the evenings on visits to one or two houses. So far he had been for bhiksha to the houses of Anantrai Pattani, Veena Devi (wife of Nirmalkumar Sinh) and PJ Parikh. Mrs Parikh's devotion was worthy of note. She was a devotee of Vyasababa of Junagadh. After Vyasababa dropped his body, she had been feeling like a lost child. When she came to Papa, she regained what she had lost. The moment she saw Papa, she would laugh like a child and never tire of saying, "I have now got my Baba, I have got my Baba, how blessed I am! I lost my Vyasababa years ago; now I have found him in you."

Papa had food in her house that day. As soon as Papa entered her house, she received him with loud laughter and continued laughing all the time. When she performed Papa's pada-pooja, she forgot so many things that she had kept for the purpose, and when she did not find certain things, she only laughed all the louder saying, "In my hurry I forgot." So much immersed was she in the service of Papa that virtually she was swimming in bliss. Enjoying that sight, her husband said, "My wife was so anxious to get things done in time that she got up at midnight and asked me if it was time to get up. She had very little sleep all the night."

After pooja, she fed Papa with overflowing love. One could only watch and enjoy for oneself such expressions of divine love, but could not describe them. Expressing her gratitude she told Papa, "I could not feed my Vyasababa. He would not take food in our house. I had, however, the good fortune of giving him milk. Now I cannot explain how happy I am to feed you. How gracious of you to have condescended to come here!" Papa replied, "How could Ramdas say 'no' to so loving an invitation."

447. Mataji also subject to dreams

9.30 p.m. Bhajan was going on in the shamiana. Mataji was in the room with Lalitha Devi, Chandrakalaben, Natverlal and S. Natverlal narrated to Mataji a dream he had a couple of days back. Now S asked Mataji, "Do you dream nowadays?

Mataji: Once in a way I have dreams – of taking food, serving food, and such other things. When in the ashram, I used to dream of the fields, ploughing, manuring and so on.

Lalitha Devi: Mataji, do you also get dreams?

Mataji: Why should I not dream? Have I two horns to be different from you all? Am I not like any one of you?

Lalitha Devi: After God-realisation, how can one get dreams?

Mataji: No, nothing of the kind. I also dream as any of you do.

448. 'I am everything' – Mataji

S: Suppose you dream of a cobra, will you be afraid of it? You may not have fear in the waking state.

Mataji: I am afraid even in the waking state and in the dream state too.

S: What is it that makes you fear? Generally people are afraid of death. In the case of saints, they have conquered fear, is it not so?

Mataji: I do not know all that. I am afraid of so many things.

S: Is there any difference between the fear you now feel and before liberation? If so, what is the difference?

Mataji: There is difference. Before liberation my fear pertained to the body idea. I was afraid of some thing that was different from me. Now I and the fear are one; when I am everything, am I not the fear also? I and the fear are one, yet I am different from that. If I say I have no fear, I am not complete. If I have a fearless aspect, I must have an aspect that fears also, and I am beyond both these aspects. So when I say I have fear, it must be understood that I am beyond that also. That is why I say that I and fear are one, yet I am different from it.

Natverlal: It was nice to hear you talk.

S: Something to record.

449. The riddle

Mataji: It is enough if you record Papa's talks. What is the use of recording all these? I am a child after all. I do not know how to talk or lecture. My prayer was that whatever Papa gave me should be only internal and not visible to others. That is why Papa did not give me the ability to write or talk.

Natverlal: You say you are a child. Papa says he is a child and you, the mother.

S: That is the riddle. This child is the child of the other child. And the other child is the child of this child.

Mataji: That is right. But I would say I am my own child. I am the child of my eternal Being. That is why I say I am the child of you all. By saying 'you' I mean Papa's eternal Being, whose form includes all human beings, creatures and everything else.

January 12, 1954

450. How contact with Papa helps

5 p.m. Papa had just come back from a visit to the house of a devotee. Sanghi, Lalitha Devi, Swami Reddy, who came from Hyderabad that evening, a devotee from Dholera, S and Mataji were in the room. When Mataji was about to go to the kitchen for tea, Papa asked her: "Have you not had your tea yet?"

Mataji: No. He is just preparing it.

Papa: Ramdas also feels like having some tea.

Mataji went to the kitchen and was about to prepare tea for Papa, when she came to know that cow's milk was not available yet and that only the buffalo's milk brought in the morning was there. Papa was not used to taking buffalo's milk. She wanted S to tell Papa that cow's milk had not arrived and to ask him whether he could wait until the milk was brought. When S explained the position to Papa, he replied, "Now is the time he should have tea. Afterwards it is no good. Even morning buffalo's milk is all right." Mataji prepared the tea and herself took it to Papa, saying, "I am not satisfied with this tea." When Papa tasted it, Mataji asked, "How do you like it?"

Papa: The tea is splendid, simply splendid!

Mataji: I thought it was not up to the mark.

Papa: No, no, it is very good.

Mataji: I asked Sanghi today how Lalitha Devi had progressed after coming into contact with Papa and taking the prasad. He replied that anger was less and bhakti more.

Papa laughed and patted Sanghi on the back, saying, "You have become a judge."

Papa: You are all coming here from different places. How are you drawn here? Does Ramdas’ contact help you?

There was no answer from any one. So Papa continued: "If people are turned more towards God, if miserly people become less miserly, if hard-hearted people become less so, there is some benefit from your contact with Ramdas. If people who have vices give them up gradually, if people who have anger gradually become calm, and if selfish people become less selfish, then there is some purpose in Ramdas coming to you.

Lalitha Devi: Papa talks poetry.

Papa (laughing): Ramdas is not aware he is talking poetry.

451. Requisite for transformation

Lalitha Devi: When can we have the transformation?

Papa: No use simply talking about it. You must be prepared for it. When Ramdas talks about the trials he had passed through during his sadhana days, people get frightened and say, "If the path is so full of suffering, we do not want it."

S: Is it really necessary that everybody should pass through this sort of suffering before they realise God?

Papa (hesitating): Perhaps it is necessary for some. If you read the life of saints, you will see that everybody had to pass through intense suffering before they reached the goal. Those who had not to pass through sufferings perhaps suffered in previous births.

Now Lalitha Devi's face lit up with a ray of hope. But as if to stifle her hope, Papa added: "Such people are very few."

Lalitha Devi (with a gasp): Papa you gave us some hope and you have now dashed it to the ground. (Papa laughs heartily)

Papa: That is why Ramdas asks you all to repeat Ram Nam and remain where you are till you get the call which will thoroughly shake you up.

Lalitha Devi: You must give us the strength to bear all sufferings.

Papa: That also Ramdas should give, is it so?

Lalitha Devi: You must give us the shock first.

Papa: An ordinary shock won't do. It must be an outright blast.

S: As Papa said yesterday, it must be an atom bomb explosion. Papa should collect all the devotees together and throw an atom bomb so that all of them will be blasted outright.

Lalitha Devi: Then there will be a number of sannyasis for Papa and Papa can send them to different places for preaching, as Buddha did.

Papa: Do you want all of them to be made sannyasis at once? You will become a sannyasini then. Are you prepared?

Lalitha Devi: Yes I am prepared.

Papa: It must be the final plunge. There should be no coming back from it midway, can you do so?

Lalitha Devi: You must give us the strength not to come back.

Papa: That shows you are not prepared for it.

S: Papa should first of all call all the devotees who are prepared, and blast them all together.

Papa: Ramdas will have to take a different course of action. He must get into each one of you and cause an explosion like a torpedo or like the Japanese aeroplane that got into the ship ‘Prince of Wales’ and exploded it completely.

S: One evening three years back, when conversing with a few devotees, Papa suddenly asked, 'If there is any one among you prepared to receive the highest spiritual experience, come forward. Ramdas is prepared to give it.' But none came forward. After a few minutes one of them said he was prepared if Papa would give him the strength.

Papa: Yes, Ramdas gave them a challenge. He asked them to come forward, if prepared for the final experience. Bansidharbhai said some time later that Ramdas should give him strength to bear the shock. Ramdas told them plainly that if they were prepared for the shock they would be completely transformed; they would give up attachment to all their possession and relations, and their life would be illumined with splendour.

Lalitha Devi (to S): Were you not there? Why did you not go forward?

S: I was not there at that time. I was in the office then.

Lalitha Devi: If you were there you would have volunteered.

Papa: S has already taken the leap. He has nothing to be attached to. Everybody is not prepared for the final plunge. How can it be forced upon them? To give up attachment to worldly possession is no ordinary thing.

S: Nambiar came an hour later and was sorry he missed the chance.

Papa: Ramdas knew he was unfit for it. He had so many desires and vasanas. How could he have the experience?

Lalitha Devi: Why not Papa give us that experience now?

Papa: Then Ramdas was in that mood. If anybody had come forward then he would have got it. He won't do it now. Ramdas does not believe in a sudden transformation. Even after they get the experience once, they will have to do intense sadhana to get established in it. Vivekananda was given the experience by Sri Ramakrishna, but he had to do sadhana for four years in the Himalayas. He wandered all over India visiting many tirthas. Ramdas also went round India visiting all the tirthas. He did not visit them just for the sake of visiting them but was doing sadhana all the while.

452. Begging alms crushes the ego

The purpose of sadhana is to purify ourselves and put down our ego. Wandering from place to place helps. Because, while wandering one has to beg for food. When people come to Ramdas saying that they are fit to renounce everything and ask Ramdas’ permission, what Ramdas asks them is whether they are prepared to beg their food. Once a young man came to the ashram and wanted Ramdas to give him Self-realisation. Ramdas asked him to have his head clean-shaven, put ochre clothes on and beg for bhiksha in the village near-by. The man disappeared. It seems Samarth Ramdas asked his disciples to beg in the streets for bhiksha in order to crush their ego. To Nambiar also Ramdas had said the same thing. To crush his ego strict and disciplined sadhana was necessary. Ramdas suggested he should go to Rishikesh and live on bhiksha. But he was not prepared to do it. It is not only that one should beg for food in Rishikesh and other places where one has no friends or relations, but one should also beg at once own place where one was holding some position and was respected by people.

Another young man came to Ramdas. He was full of vairagya. The moment he met Ramdas he was transformed. He sat near Ramdas, took the Mantra and tears were rolling down his cheeks. Immediately after he got the Mantra, he went away, had his head shaved, put on ochre cloth and went first to his own house to beg for food. Seeing him, his brothers were surprised and called him in, but he replied that he had no business to go in as he no longer belonged to them, but only to God. To beg for food at one's place is not easy. People may taunt you and make fun of you. You must be able to take it coolly. Honour and dishonour must be same to you. Can you do it? Then only you are fit for the final plunge.

453. Offerings to a saint, right attitude

After realisation one becomes an instrument for selfless service. He inspires thousands and thousands to lead a better life. He has nothing to gain, nothing to lose. Whatever he gets, he distributes to others who are in need. Suppose a man gives him one thousand rupees for feeding the poor. The saint undertakes the work and does it selflessly. That is why it is said that householders should do charity through saints. When a saint receives money from a householder and distributes it to others, he does it only on behalf of the householder and the householder gains the saint's blessings also. The blessings are very powerful. This type of charity reduces the chance for abhiman. Of course there are some people who say with pride, 'I have done this and I have done that for this saint or that saint,' as if they had done a great favour to the saint. Anybody giving anything to a saint should do so for his own spiritual progress and not for obliging the saint. There are of course some who always feel that whatever they do is for their own spiritual progress. Charity done through saints will have a hundredfold effect.

After all, what do saints want? They are satisfied with a piece of cloth and a morsel of food. That they can get from any devotee. Though all-powerful, they show themselves to be in need and sometimes even demand money from devotees, thereby giving them a chance to serve. When such a chance comes and the devotee gives money to a saint knowing that he is serving the saint for his own good, he is really benefited by such service. On the other hand, if he gives something to the saint, thinking he is thus helping him, he does not regard him as a saint but as a beggar. When people feel that a saint is in want, it means that they have not understood him, but have taken him to be an ordinary man going about for food.

454. When husband or wife not spiritually inclined

Dholera devotee: In a house, if the husband is spiritually inclined and the wife is not, should he give her up and go away or is he bound to remain at home?

Papa: In such cases, the man must gradually transform his wife. There are so many cases like that. Sometimes the wife is devout and the husband is not. In some other cases the husband is devout and the wife is not. Recently a mother came here to Ramdas and explained to him how her husband is against her devotional practices. It seems he throws away the scriptures she is reading and asks her to stop chanting God's name. Ramdas advised her not to worry but carry on with her devotional practices silently. She can carry on her household duties and repeat God's name mentally. In course of time her husband is sure to be transformed. She should love her husband and not quarrel with him.

455. See good in others

There are some men who do some devotional practices like taking early bath, having ash or chandan mark on the forehead, reading scriptures and so on, but spend the rest of the day cheating, quarrelling, abusing and so forth. They find fault with their wives, for not being devout. The wives have then every right to ask, 'Is this your devotion to God? If you are a devotee of God, should you not control your tongue and adjust your life in such a way that you remain calm and peaceful, causing the least pain to others'?

It is, first of all our duty to analyse and find out what faults we have. We are not to find fault with others. But our habit is to make a mountain of a molehill in respect of others' faults and vice versa in respect of our own. By doing so we are only multiplying our own faults. On the other hand, by finding only the good in others we will be reducing our own faults. Even the worst of men have some virtues in them. We must see only the good in others and be aware of our own faults. A good man finds only good everywhere and an evil man finds only evil. When Yudhishthira was asked to find out an evil man he failed to find one, while Duryodhana could find no good man anywhere when asked to find one. We find our own good or evil reflected in others. So what we should do is to turn the torch on ourselves instead of on others. When we do so, we become aware of all our defects. When we see good in others we see only God there. That helps us to find God within ourselves. It is a double process. By trying to find God within, we will be able to see only the good, that is God, in all, and by trying to see God in all, we will find God within ourselves.

What is the use of simply putting on the garb of a devotee and leading an evil life? There are many people who never talk about God, but lead a simple, straightforward and honest life which is in many ways better than that of those who make much of their own devotion. It is said, that there is hope of salvation for a virtuous infidel but not for a vicious believer.

Ramdas has been talking for nearly an hour, has he not?

Mataji: More than an hour, Papa.

456. Aftermath of the talk

Lalitha Devi, who all along was listening with great attention, got up to stretch her limbs and said, "I have been sitting for an hour motionless and my legs are numb."

Papa was talking rather very seriously. There was no smile on his face. He was very grave. Sanghi who sitting a few yards away, after the talk was over, remarked, "From fine poetry it suddenly turned dry prose, very dry prose. I cannot digest all these. It was too much for me. My head is already heavy."

Papa, hearing that, could not control his laughter. In fact, when Papa was talking, the atmosphere was so tense that everybody became serious and consequently nobody intruded into the talk.

Sanghi: Papa's talk was like hammering on the head. Just after tea, it went on and on.

Papa: Was it after all so hard and was it the effect of the tea?

Sanghi: Yes, Papa, Just after the nice poem and tea, what followed was very, very dry prose.

Papa (to S): You have to oil Ramdas’ head tomorrow. It is rather hot now. (Laughing)

S: So the hammerer and the hammered both have become hot!

Papa: Yes, Ramdas was not hammering on a soft surface. It was like hammering on steel.

S: That shows what our heads are.

January 13, 1954

457. Speak only truth

A devotee had come from Hyderabad the previous evening. He told Papa that he had taken leave on the false ground that his mother was under eye-treatment and needed his help. Papa told him that it was not good on his part to have resorted to a lie, as he could have told the truth, and if leave was not granted, he should have taken it as God's will.

Papa then asked him: "Is your mind not pricking you now for having told a lie?"

Devotee: Yes, Papa.

Papa: So the joy of your coming and being here is gone. When Ramdas went to Badrinath, it was found very difficult to enter the temple and have darshan. One poojari in the temple told Ramdas that those who were sick were permitted to have darshan first and that Ramdas could avail himself of that opportunity if he said that he was sick. Ramdas replied that he would even go without darshan but was not prepared to tell a lie.

January 14, 1954

458. Ramdas for discipline

10.30 p.m. Papa was lying on his cot. His legs and back were being massaged. Lalitha Devi was near him holding the hot-water bag for fomentation of the chest.

Lalitha Devi: When Papa came to Hyderabad the year before last, I had a doubt in my mind. I knew that when people went to see maharajas and please them, they used to ask for lands or other valuable presents. But I could not decide what I should ask of Papa. In the course of a conversation, Mataji told me that I should ask Papa for no worldly thing but only pray to him that I should merge in his eternal Being. So whenever I prostrated before Papa my prayer was only that.

Papa (to Mataji): Oh, you told her what she was to do!

Mataji: I don't remember.

Papa: Anyway it is your language.

Lalitha Devi: Later I told this to other friends. Then they were asking me why I did not tell them earlier. So, Papa, my prayer is that you must have me merged in your eternal Being.

Papa: As Mataji has told you this, you must ask her how she herself became fit. She put herself entirely into the hands of Ramdas, not caring for the future. She gave up everything and clung to Ramdas. The world taunted her, criticised her and gave her no end of trouble. She did not care. Besides all the troubles she had from the world, Ramdas also gave her enough trouble asking her to go and serve in several houses. Ramdas was very strict and hard on her. You must be prepared for that, are you?

Lalitha Devi: No, I do not think I am as yet prepared for it. I shall then merge in Mataji's swarup. You and Mataji are one after all.

Mataji: Nothing of the kind. You must ask only Papa.

Papa: So you want to be Mataji's disciple. Is it so? She will feed you well and ask you to sleep till 6 lest you should get headache if you get up at 4. She will give you all other comforts. And that will be the end of it. What sadhana can you do? It was so arranged that she came to Ramdas only after his sadhana was over. Now she makes him sleep till 6.30. Even then she hesitates to wake him up. If he gets up at 5.45, she says, ‘Sleep, sleep, sleep; it is not yet time. What are you going to do getting up now?' If she had come to Ramdas earlier, his sadhana would have all gone. If Ramdas tells anybody to be strict in diet and sleep, she takes Ramdas to task. She wants them to eat to the full and lead an easy life. As for Ramdas, he is a strict disciplinarian. He would make them beg their food.

Lalitha Devi: Papa, I shall come to the ashram, stay there and beg from Mataji.

Papa: Ah, that you will do! Without absolute renunciation nothing can be attained. Mataji's is an example of renunciation. But she does not like others to pass through that.

S: Two years ago, Mataji proposed that Papa should help the devotees to realise God, living in their own homes, carrying on their usual work and not externally renouncing. Does Papa remember?

Papa: Yes, but that is impossible. At one stage they have to give up, and they will give up everything. Finding that family life is such a great obstacle to their progress they will kick it off and be free of it.

Mataji: Should they wander about like these sadhus you see now?

Papa: Ramdas does not mean that. Let them give up everything and come to Ramdas. He will then see to their further progress.

Lalitha Devi: Papa, I don't know anything. As you make me, so I will become.

Saying that she prostrated at Papa's and Mataji's feet. It was nearing 11.30 p.m. Papa went to bed.

January 15, 1954

459. What is renunciation? How it comes about

5 p.m. Papa was having a stroll in the ashram hall. With him were a few devotees including Lalitha Devi.

Papa: Renunciation does not come by planning or calculation. It must come of itself through a divine call. The call will be so irresistible that you will not be able to reject it.

Lalitha Devi: How does the call come? Is it by Nama smaran or Guru-Kripa?

Papa: It does not come by mere repetition of Ram Nam. Ram Nam helps, no doubt, but Guru-Kripa must be there.

Lalitha Devi: Is it by Papa's own effort or by Guru-Kripa that Papa got it? Is it after leaving the house or before? Is it after initiation or before?

Papa: It was before leaving the house and before initiation. It might have been by the grace of a saint whom Ramdas does not remember.

Lalitha Devi: What does renunciation mean?

Papa: When Ramdas left his house, his daughter, only daughter, was unmarried and he did not leave any property behind him. After some time his wife came to him and asked how the daughter was to be married, as he had not made any provision for the same. Later, he happened to witness her marriage which was arranged very nicely. He did not take any part in it. He only witnessed it as a play. He was playing with the children in the pandal. This is a concrete example of how God takes care of everybody. Our so-called dependents are not really depending on us. We all depend on God; we feel that they are depending on us because of maya. Through ignorance we cling to them and they cling to us for support and security.

The ego-sense cannot be got rid of easily. We have to pay the full price in order to realise God. We give up the perishable and get, in return, the imperishable. We get the eternal in exchange for the non-eternal. Even if we offer millions of lives to realise God or Immortality, that price is nothing compared to what we achieve.

When Mataji came to the ashram, she came with only one cloth, at 10 o'clock in the night, and said, 'I have come.' Ramdas replied, 'You have come to your own house.' For three years there was no communication between her and her relatives. After three years she received a letter that her elder son was seriously ill. Ramdas asked her if she would go to see the child. She said that by going there she would not be able to give him life. She also felt that as the boy was by birth weak, if he died he would have a better body in his next life and there was no need to be anxious about his health. She had left her children under the care of loving people and they would nurse the boy properly. Hence, she felt her presence was not needed there. Ramdas then asked her what he should reply. She said that Ramdas could reply as he pleased. Ramdas then proposed that some prasad be sent and it was done. The boy recovered, no doubt but the news reached her only after four or five years. This is the meaning of renunciation.

Lalitha Devi: Is it necessary to leave the house and stay in an ashram?

Papa: It is not necessary. One can practice while in the household. The ashram is but a bigger house. The difference is that the standard of the ashram is universal. If one can live a detached life in the house it will be like the ashram. When we feel that we are doing proper sadhana, we must keep in mind the great saints like Narada, Prahlada and others. By doing so constantly, our ego-sense disappears.

Lalitha Devi: How is it that all sannyasins do not realise even after external renunciation?

Papa: In comparision with the householders and others, the sannyasins have gained a certain amount of peace, as they have no sense of possession, dependence, or even position. So, even the external renunciation helps. But internal renunciation is absolutely necessary.

January 16, 1954

460. Strange happenings

4 p.m. Papa was in the room talking with a group of devotees. Message came from the kitchen inviting all of them for tea. Papa then asked them to go. Papa and S were alone in the room after they had left. In a few seconds a young man who was sitting near Papa so long and had just gone with the others for tea, suddenly returned to Papa as he was waiting for a suitable occasion to meet Papa alone. He said, "Papaji, I have to tell you something."

Papa: Yes. Speak on.

Young man: I had a dream about fifteen days back. In that my father and myself were sitting at your feet and when we were about to leave you, you told my father, ‘Dedicate your son to Ramdas, will you?’ I was anxious to tell you about it earlier but I was away in Bombay and came back only yesterday.

Papa: Ah, that is good. Did you tell your father about it? What did he say?

Young man: I told him. He also suggested that I should tell you about it.

The young man's eyes were filled with tears. Papa patted him on the back and gazed at him for a few seconds. He placed his head at Papa's feet, his eyes overflowing with tears.

Young man: Still I am not able to concentrate on Ram Nam.

Papa: What are you doing?

Young man: I am a dealer in firewood.

Papa: Are you a bachelor?

Young man: No, I am married and have a child three days old.

Papa: Carry on with your usual work and mentally take it for granted that you belong to Ramdas.

When the young man heard this, his joy knew no bounds. He again fell at Papa's feet, who once more patted him on the back. When he got up and left, wiping his eyes with his handkerchief, Papa said to S, "Strange things have started happening."

S: Did they start only now? Have they not been happening for many years?

Papa: Yes, they have been, but more frequently now.