← The Gospel of Swami RamdasHis talks, as recorded by Swami Satchidananda

1953-10-01

Chapter 23

Anandashram, October 1, 1953

192. Likhit Japa Yajna

It was the day of Nama Likhit Japa Yajna begun in connection with the Silver Jubilee celebration of Mataji's renunciation. PSG Rao of Madras, who was then in the ashram, had donated for a feast that day. He was anxious that he should take meal along with Mataji. So when Mataji was ready, she sent word to all those who had not taken meal. Opposite to Mataji sat Rao, S and others.

Rao (to S): Did you see how many pamphlets were there in the packet that we brought? I mean the pamphlets announcing the Likhit Japa Yajna.

S: No, I did not see the packet at all.

Mataji: How many have enrolled themselves for the Likhit Japa Yajna, and how many are needed?

S: Reckoning at the rate of two hundred Mantras a day, for each devotee, we need altogether one thousand seven hundred sixtynine members, to be exact. But to be on the safe side, it is necessary to have two thousand members. We need seven hundred families, taking three persons for each family on the average.

Rao: Oh, so many! We must get them soon.

Mataji: Enlisting them is easy, but they must keep up the enthusiasm and carry on till the end in order to reach the target.

193. Grace for Sadhana

Rao: If you shower your grace on them, they all will be able surely to complete the yajna successfully.

Mataji: They must have the determination to do it. In their worldly activities, in order to get things done, they make firm resolutions themselves and stick to them till they succeed. For making money and managing business enterprises, they are very active, firm and strong-willed. But in spiritual matters alone they say, 'If you make us do by your grace, we will do so.' This is how they escape. If you all really feel that saints should make you do your sadhana, then it should be equally applicable to your worldly activities also. There you are not prepared to throw the responsibility on them, and you are able to put forth your own effort. So, why not in regard to sadhana also?

194. I am the poorest of the poor – Mataji

Mataji (to Rao): Because of you, we all had a feast today; otherwise, we would have had our usual simple meal.

S: He wanted to arrange for a big feeding of the poor. When you said that it would be difficult to make arrangements for that and the crowd would be unmanageable, he dropped the idea and we only had the feast.

Mataji: Why? This is also poor-feeding. Is it not? Are we not all poor? Among the so-called poor, many possess money. It will be hard to find even a small number who do not have any money at all. But look at me. I do not own anything. I am the poorest of the poor. So you must feed me first. Am I not correct?

Rao: We first take from you, and then we give.

Mataji: If anybody gives me anything, of course I distribute it among all. I cannot keep anything for myself.

195. Publish only what all can understand.

S had given in the morning some manuscripts to Papa for approval before they were got ready for the Press. S went to Papa's room at 4 p.m. Papa was busy showing the photo albums to Ammini. Mataji also was in Papa's room. The manuscripts given to Papa in the morning were on the table.

S (to Mataji): Did Papa read out anything from these manuscripts to you?

Mataji: Yes, Papa read out three articles and one epistle. I feel that you should cut from that the portion relating to ahimsa. Papa is making some references to Gandhiji there. It is better such controversial points are not published now. You may publish them some years hence.

S: Is it not enough if mention of Gandhiji is not made in the article? May not the rest of the matter go as it is?

Mataji: It is better that the whole para is removed. What Papa has said there about non-violence in indeed right, but how many can understand it? It will be helpful only to a few sadhakas. How many real and earnest sadhakas are there? Not even one in a thousand. To help one in a thousand, we should not disturb the minds of the remaining readers. What we publish should be easily understandable, easily digestible, by all readers. We cannot feed alike a child of four years and a baby of two months with the same sort of food. We give milk to the baby and rice to the grown-up child. If we start giving rice to the baby also, the consequence will be disastrous. If you publish the matter even without making any reference to Gandhiji's name, it will be clear to the readers from the context that the remarks relate to Gandhiji's views. When his followers read them, there will be unnecessary discussions, heated arguments and misunderstandings over this issue. So it is better to leave this matter for publication on a later date. What is not good now may prove to be good in the future.

S: If, by publishing it now, we shall be doing more disservice than service, it is better we refrain from doing so.

196. Mataji not enthusiastic about recording her talks

Mataji: Yes. It is better we do not publish it now. Did you catch my point? (laughing). I am always asking people, 'Did you understand?' I do so to make sure if they have really understood what I say. This has become a sort of habit with me now. I ask like that because I often find that people do not understand my words correctly. I talk to them and they listen and nod their heads, as if they have understood everything. But when I ask them to explain and restate what I had said, I find they are not able to do so. Thus I once thought A understood me well when I was talking to her about my early life and experiences. One day, after talking to her for some time, I wanted to ascertain how far she had grasped my narrative, and I asked her some questions on certain points. Then I found she was not able to answer correctly any. That is why I am not quite confident when anybody wants to write anything about me or my talks. You must have read what has been written by others about my talks with them. Are they faithful records of my views?

S: Who has written?

Mataji: So many have attempted. But I do not encourage them.

197. Himsa/Ahimsa – mental attitude counts

9 p.m. Papa was coming from the bhajan-hall to his room followed by S. Papa had in his hand the manuscripts S had given him for approval. Showing them to S, he observed: “Mataji does not wish that the portion relating to ahimsa in this manuscript should be pubished now.”

S: Mataji told me also. On this point of ahimsa, Papa, I was talking to Swami Atmananda a few minutes back. It seems he once asked Gandhiji why in his foreword to the ‘Life of Sri Ramakrishna’ he wrote that Sri Ramakrishna was a votary of ahimsa, when he knew that Sri Ramakrishna used to eat fish and did not mind killing bugs. Then Gandhiji in his reply to Swami Atmananda told a story about Tolstoy. Tolstoy was an ardent advocate of non-violence and a vegetarian too. But he was taking eggs daily. One of his friends asked him if eating eggs did not amount to killing life. Tolstoy thought about it for a while and replied, 'Yes, I ought to have stopped taking eggs. At least from now I shall stop it.' It was the force of habit that made Tolstoy continue taking eggs even after becoming a votary of non-violence, and when he was reminded of the anomaly, he at once stopped the practice. Similarly, according to Gandhiji, the implication is that Sri Ramakrishna too might have been eating fish only by force of mere habit. I asked Atmananda if he was satisfied with Gandhiji's reply. He said he was not. But, he added, he did not pursue the topic with Gandhiji. Atmananda also told me that Gandhiji himself was not quite free from the force of habit. Gandhiji himself once told Atmananda that though he was convinced that he should travel only by the 3rd class, he was still going in the 2nd class by mere force of habit.

Papa: It was all right so far as Gandhiji was concerned. But the case of Sri Ramakrishna was quite different. Unlike Gandhiji and Tolstoy, Sri Ramakrishna never felt sorry for what he did. Sri Ramakrishna used to take fish and kill bugs with the full consciousness of what he did and not by mere force of habit. He even asked some of his disciples to kill bugs and mosquitoes. His justification was that, if they were not killed, they would be disturbing their meditation. Sri Ramakrishna knew that the essence of ahimsa lay in the heart, that outwardly absolute ahimsa was not possible and that, without committing a minimum of the so-called himsa, living in this world was impossible for any one.

Continuing, Papa said, "Gandhiji was always careful to observe that he was only experimenting with the great ideal. One thing is clear. This question of himsa and ahimsa – violence and non-violence – is not a matter merely of external actions. It is primarily a question of one's inner spirit and mental attitude. One can be a true votary of ahimsa and yet strike or kill another, provided one does so without hatred, with a pure heart, full of love for the persons so dealt with. One must have the full consciousness that his actions are prompted by God's will and that he is only an instrument in the hands of the divine. In fact, such a one, who has dedicated all his actions to God, is free from all sense of doership or agency. He knows that God alone is the doer and that the individual is only a medium for the execution of God's will. He is free from ill will, hatred or selfish motives. Another person may be externally non-violent, avoiding acts that cause injury to any one. But his mind may not be pure. Love may not have entered his heart. He may not be free from selfishness. Such a one, in spite of his outward non-violence, cannot be said to be a true votary of ahimsa. His conduct may seem to be non-violent outwardly, but inwardly he will be impure, tainted by egoism, passion, prejudice and selfish motive. He may be harming many silently, though outwardly he may not commit any violent act.

“A true votary of ahimsa has love and purity of heart. He is quite free from ego-sense. His is a life entirely dedicated to the divine. He is always aware that he is only an instrument for working out God's will. He has no self-interest to serve. He works only for the good of the world."

Papa concluded by observing: "There is no doubt that Gandhiji was a true votary of this type. His non-violence was rooted in love and purity. From the way he gave sanction for the mercy-killing of a suffering calf in his ashram, it is also clear that he did not go merely by external actions and that he was guided by the underlying spirit behind external acts."

October 2, 1953

198. Papa's Love for Ramkishor

9.30 a.m. Papa started on his usual rounds, from the ashram. S was following him. Though S had been observing every day Papa's love for Ramkishor expressing itself in many extraordinary ways, that day he was particularly struck by what he had witnessed.

The previous evening, when Papa was returning from his evening walk, Ramkishor took Papa to the kitchen and asked him to stand by the side of the road facing the old cowshed – then used as a lumber room. He then went inside, brought out three sheaves of paddy stalks, placed two stones on the ground and started threshing the stalks. In a few minutes the grains were all separated. In the meantime Papa was watching the boy and giving him certain tips now and then to do the threshing properly. (The paddy was cultivated by Ramkishor in a small plot which he had prepared in front of his house. The sowing and harvesting were done partly by him and partly under his supervision). Papa was standing there for more than half an hour. Generally he used to feel very tired when he returned from the evening walk, and somebody had to massage his legs when he sat on the chair, breathing heavily. But the previous evening though the walk was much longer than usual, Papa stood there for over half an hour and did not feel he was tired. S felt that for anything else, however important, Papa would not have cared to stand there all that time, as he did then.

The collected paddy was then taken in a plate and kept in Papa's room. Now for that morning's incident. Papa and S together were in the garden. Ramkishor came running and told Papa that he had to dry his paddy. He wanted to know where and how he should do it. Papa suggested something, to which Ramkishor did not agree. Again, another suggestion from Papa did not meet with Ramkishor's approval. Then Papa said, 'That can be done here in the garden. Get a bamboo-mat and a wire-netting, spread the paddy on the bamboo-mat, and cover the same with the wire-netting so that birds cannot pick the grains.' Papa waited in the sun till Ramkishor got those things and then gave him the key to open the room and get the plate of paddy. When it was brought, Papa waited again to see that he did it all right. He did not do it correctly. Papa then directed him to do it in the proper way. Papa finally asked him to collect the hay and spread it on the stone seats in the garden to dry.

It was worth noticing how Papa was talking to Ramkishor and made him do things. Papa's love for the boy, expressing itself in manifold ways, could not be ordinary love. Papa did not seem to be caring for anything else, when the boy was near him. When he was not near, Papa appeared to be all the more anxious about him. If any one, who had not known and accepted Papa as a saint or Guru, had witnessed Papa dealing thus with the boy, he would be inclined to consider it as nothing more than a deep-rooted attachment similar to that of an old man to his grandson. Papa appeared to be so much concerned with the boy. But those who had known Papa could not take it as mere attachment. They could not say what it was and what it was going to be.

October 3, 1953

199. Talk of Surrender easy – To control Lower Nature, no joke

8 a.m. Papa's room. Mataji was in the passage and Papa was in the room. PSG Rao and his wife were coming to meet Papa after breakfast.

Rao was greatly interested in collecting relics of great saints for his museum at home. He had gathered many things that were used by Ramana Maharshi, Swami Narayan, Ma Anandamayee, Papa and other saints. He wanted to have more things.

Rao (with a fountain pen in his hand): Mataji, I have come to loot Papa's pen and some more things.

He then entered, gave his pen to Papa and asked for Papa's pen. Papa took out his pen and gave it to Rao as prasad.

Rao: I want to take Papa's watch also. But I cannot give another watch to Papa. I have got only a wrist watch. Will Papa have it?

Papa: No. No. Ramdas does not wear a wrist watch.

Mataji: You may ask Papa to have your watch with him for a few minutes and then take it as his prasad.

Rao (taking the watch from his hand and tying the same to Papa's hand): That won't do, Mataji, I want something that Papa has been using for some years.

Mataji: You must now take your watch back from Papa.

Rao: Everything that belongs to me is Papa's. I have surrendered myself to Papa.

Mataji: That is all mere talk. If you have really surrendered to Papa, you won't feel like taking things and keeping them there at your place. That is not surrender. No need to take from here when everything you have is Papa's.

Rao: No, Mataji. That is also his house. That is how we feel about it. When Papa is not physically there, let us keep some of his things at least.

Mataji then suggested to Papa that if Rao was so particular he might be given the watch that was kept on Papa's table. Papa took it and gave it to Rao and also took out the string from his watch and passed it on to Rao.

Mataji left the room for the dining-hall, followed by Swami Atmananda, Subbaram and S. While taking tiffin, Mataji, addressing S sitting in front of her, referred to Rao's request for prasad.

Mataji: This talk of surrender is only lip-deep. If there is real surrender, the sense of possession completely disappears. One may not be particular about keeping or storing things. Even if one keeps things and enjoys doing so, one will part with those things with the same joy as one had while keeping them. To talk of surrender is very easy. You must have seen H's letters to Papa; how he was pouring out his heart in them. In every letter, he wrote that he had surrendered everything to Papa.

S: H's letters are really inspiring to read.

Mataji: And see what has happened to him. I do not say that he had not gained anything in those days. Without attaining something he could not have moved so closely with and opened his heart to Papa. But his lower nature became too strong for him. It is not a joke to control the lower nature and go beyond it.

When deep-rooted habits are there, if he comes and unburdens himself to Papa, and if Papa directs his mind towards him, he is sure to be freed from the clutches of his lower nature. But he must frankly tell everything. Recently a young woman had come here. Her case was similar to mine. I came out of the house, as the danger of losing my chastity was imminent even inside the house. When I told Papa everything, I was saved. So also was this woman troubled at home. I told her to tell everything frankly to Papa. If Papa says, 'That will not happen,' that is enough to save her. She was hesitating. Why should she hesitate? When we consider Papa as our mother, why should we not tell him all secrets? She finally told Papa.

200. Ram Nam is the Technique

After breakfast, Swami Atmananda and S came to Papa's room, where PSG Rao was talking to Papa. Addressing S, Rao said, "I have now completed the loot. See."

S: Oh, you have managed to get the cane also! You are not an ordinary looter.

Rao: I am an LMG (Loot Master General).

Swami Atmananda (to Rao): I am going to loot you before you go.

S: He is going tomorrow morning.

Swami Atmananda: I must look to it today itself.

Papa: You are going to loot the looter. Now you must leave Ramdas so that he may reply to some letters.

Rao got up and, with folded arms, requested in a low tone: “Papa, you must burn me just as Bhagavan burnt you, as you described last night.”

Papa (smiling): For that, you must come to Ramdas like dry wood. Ramdas went to Bhagavan like a dry log, ready to catch fire.

Rao: How to become like dry wood? You must teach us the technique.

Papa: Ram Nam. That is the technique.

Rao: Papa, I must get dehydrated. Sure.

Papa: Take more and more Ram Nam.

201. Argument for argument's sake

10 a.m. Papa was seated on a chair in the portico of Dr Ramaswami's house. Ramachandra Rao, C Lakshmi Narasimhiah (CLN) and S were with him.

Papa (to CR Rao): How is your health now?

CR Rao: You must know, Papa.

Papa (to CLN): How is his health now? Is it not better?

CLN: Yes, it is much better.

Papa: So, Lakshmi Narasimhiah certifies that your health is all right.

CR Rao: His certificate is no good. I want your certificate. You are the person to admit us and discharge us.

Papa (to CLN): He does not care for your certificate. Why is it?

CLN: He has no confidence in me.

Papa (To CR Rao): Are you and Ramdas different?

CR Rao: If that is the case, why should Papa have to ask if I am all right? Who is all right and who is not all right, if there is only one?

Papa: That is all right in the static Spirit. In the world-play or dynamic aspect of names and forms we have to do all things. He Himself is in many forms – in healthy forms and diseased forms.

CR Rao: So, this is one of His diseased forms.

Papa (after a few minutes): There are persons who, even when they know that what they talk is wrong, go on arguing to establish that they are right. They will hold forth all arguments in their favour to outwit the other person. Saintly souls are more or less of that type!

CR Rao: So, you are of that type. (Papa has a good laugh).

202. Mataji frank only with a few

At noon in the dining-hall: Mataji was having lunch. In front of her was Swami Atmananda and others.

S: Mataji, what did you tell PSG Rao this morning when he was talking about the watch?

Mataji: I told him that the surrender he was speaking about was a mere talk.

S: Not that point. Before he said that he had surrendered himself to Papa, he was talking about something.

Mataji: I do not remember. If you had asked me in the morning I would have told you, but now everything has gone underneath the tea. Was Rao disturbed on that account? Did he feel bad?

S: I did not talk to him about it.

Mataji: I generally do not talk to all like that, even though I may have known them for years. But to some I give replies spontaneously even if I meet them only for the first time. You have all been here for many years but I do not talk to you that way. Even if I notice anything untoward, in many cases I do not like telling them anything. Even if I feel like correcting them, something prevents me from doing so. I feel as if there is some catch in the throat. Only with very few people I speak out frankly about what they ought to do. You know how I used to talk to Natverlal. Another is Dr Ramaswamy. But with his sister and wife I do not talk like that. It is not always good to talk like that, because they might feel hurt and there is every chance of their ego-sense rising up and of their thinking why I should find fault with them alone. I always used to take Rame and Gopal to task. I used to deliver sermons to them almost every day. I realised later on that it was no use. But all the same I could not help advising them, and I did it spontaneously. When Subbarao, Moholkar and Gunda were here I used to correct Gunda often when I felt he ought to have acted differently in certain cases. But in the case Moholkar and Subbarao, I was not feeling like doing so.

4.30 p.m. Papa was seated on the cement bench in front of ashram. PSG Rao, his wife and some ashramites were getting ready to go to the Hanuman Mandir.

S: Is Papa not going for a walk today?

Papa: Yes, we shall go for a short walk.

Papa and S together went out towards the school and came back in fifteen minutes.

Papa's chair was brought out so that he might sit comfortably in the open. The post also arrived. Papa received and looked into the letters. Swami Atmananda came and sat by Papa's side on the mat spread there. ‘The Hindu’ received with the post was lying on Papa's lap, yet unopened. Atmananda slowly pulled it, at the same time asking for Papa's permission.

Papa: Do you still have a craving for it? Ramdas thought you are free from it. Last time when you came here, you had perhaps less desire to read newspapers. Now you have got your old craving back.

Swami Atmananda: No craving, Papa. Just to see the news headlines. That is all.

Papa: Any way you are caught again in it.

Very soon Atmananda went through the paper and returned it to Papa, saying, "Papa, I have finished. That is all I wanted it for."

Papa: Good, you have finished so soon. Now you can go and do your japa.

PSG Rao had gone to Mataji in the morning and asked her for her used saree as prasad, to be kept in his museum of relics. Mataji, it seemed, told him that she had only two sarees and she could not spare any. She further asked him why he should worry about keeping such things. Rao was disappointed, but a minute later Mataji told him that she would give him a saree provided he purchased a new one for her. He readily agreed and asked Keshav Bhat to bring four sarees, so that Mataji might select one. Keshav Bhat accordingly brought four sarees from the bazaar. Rao took them to Mataji and requested her to select one for herself.

Mataji: I am not going to select anything, whatever you give is all right.

Rao: I asked you to select so that you may take whichever you like.

Mataji: If you leave it to me to select, I may take all.

Rao (with delight): That is very good.

He took his purse and paid Keshav Bhat the value of all four sarees.

Subbaram (who was standing near): Rao, whatever it be, she is not going to keep more than two with her.

Rao (to Mataji): Mataji, one thing I would like to request you; you should wear all the sarees.

Mataji: I will give away the extra ones.

Rao: You may give away after wearing at least once.

Mataji: That is all right. That is what I do.

So Rao was satisfied with the bargain. Mataji might have already in view who should be given the extra sarees. So both were happy, and those who might receive the sarees from her the next day or on any future day would be happy and blessed too.