← The Gospel of Swami RamdasHis talks, as recorded by Swami Satchidananda

1953-11-15

Chapter 33

Hyderabad, November 15, 1953

293. Is God whimsical in showering grace?

Residence of Rani Lalitha Devi. Papa had just finished his breakfast. Prof. Krishna Rao, MG Krishna Rao, Damodar Rao, Vasudeva Rao, Veeraraghavan and a few others were sitting in front of Papa.

Prof. K Rao: Papa, we are having interesting questions and answers. Yesterday, in the reply to the question about Sai Baba, Papa never mentioned the name of Sai Baba.

S: It was only a general question. By referring to Sai Baba the questioner was meaning only saints in general.

Papa: Ramdas talked of only saints in general. He did not want to talk about anybody or about his opinion in particular.

S: In yesterday's talks about God's grace, you said God showers His grace as a child gives away things. By comparing God to a child, are you not suggesting that He is whimsical and that from His point of view there is no such thing as a deserving or undeserving case?

Papa: That is what the devotees take Him to be, especially when they see that those who do severe and intense sadhana for years together do not get anything, and an apparently undeserving person is suddenly granted inner illumination.

S: Papa rightly put it as 'apparently undeserving'. It is only in our opinion that he is undeserving.

Papa: Take the case of Anna (T Bhavanishankar Rao). He was regular, systematic and intense in his spiritual practices from the very early age of his life. At that time Ramdas was laughing at him and making fun of him. He would, in those days, tell us that we should pray and remember God. But we took his advice lightly and did not heed it. When the change came over Ramdas and he became God's ardent devotee, Anna was the first to recognise the conversion. He held Ramdas in great reverence. Then Ramdas wondered what God had worked in him.

294. Was Papa an atheist in early life?

Damodar Rao: Was Papa an atheist in those days?

Papa: Yes, he was something like that. He was laughing at those engaged in spiritual disciplines such as japa and pooja. He did not believe in repetition of Ram Nam by people who were having ‘mala’ in hand and at the same time abusing and speaking ill of others. He did not like hypocrites or the God who made them so.

Damodar Rao: Were worldly worries responsible for taking Papa's mind Godward and was Papa unhappy for fear of losing jobs very often?

Papa: No. Ramdas was care-free and independent. Even when he lost a job he did not mind it.

S: But, just before Papa started repeating Ram Nam, was there any immediate cause for his vairagya?

Papa: He was unhappy because of the great hypocrisy, deception, violence and the consequent suffering he found in the world.

295. God reveals Himself to Himself

S: Papa, our question remains still unanswered. How can we compare God to a child in conferring grace on aspirants?

Papa: It is said in the Upanishads that He reveals Himself in the hearts of those whom He chooses. On what basis He chooses we do not know. In fact, to whom does He reveal Himself? He reveals Himself to Himself when He chooses. It is all His game. In one He hides Himself and plays the part of an ignorant man, in another He removes the veil and plays the part of a wise one. So He is Himself everything. He is the seeker. He is the sought.

S: Papa, this solves all problems. This is the answer which leaves no room for any further question.

Papa: So you got the answer.

296. A lady in trance

When the morning bhajan was going on, a car brought a woman and a few men. It stopped in front of the bhajan mandir near the shamiana. The woman sitting in the car was in a state of trance and therefore she remained there undisturbed. After some time, when she came out of the trance, she was asked to alight from the car and take her seat in the room in the bhajan mandir.

It was ascertained later that she came from Yadgir and her name was Manikamma. She had been living without food and water for several years. From six months she had been observing silence. She did not allow anybody to touch her as that disturbed her greatly. Those who came with her – they were her followers – were anxious that she should have Papa's darshan and upadesh.

When the bhajan was over, Papa and Mataji were escorted to the room where Manikamma was sitting on a chair. Two chairs were placed by her side. Papa sat on one, and Mataji, prostrating before her and also before Papa, sat on the other. When Manikamma was told that it was Swami Ramdas and Mother Krishnabai who were before her, she just folded her hands to them, sitting on the chair. She was asked by her followers to write on a slate, which she had, anything she wanted to say to Papa. She wrote down something in Telugu, which one of her followers translated to Papa thus: 'I am very unhappy to see so much cruelty in this world. My prayer is that people may be relieved of their suffering.'

Papa replied in English, which was translated for her into Telugu: "Our mission is to spread Ram Nam and bring about peace and harmony in the world."

She was again about to write something on the slate when Papa said there was an engagement for him to attend. Rani Lalitha Devi suggested that she might wait there till 2 o'clock when Papa would be free to see her. She nodded her head in agreement.

Papa then got into the car to go to the residence of Rani Barkat Rai to attend the ‘Gita’ recitations. When the car started, Prof. Krishna Rao, who was sitting in the front seat with Rani Barkat Rai, said: "Papa, so you met that mother. She observes silence, and so did not talk to Papa."

Papa: That is her will.

Prof. Krishna Rao: Any way, Papa did commune with her.

Papa: Ramdas is always in communion with you all. He communes with all of you whether you are talking, walking or doing anything else.

Papa again met Manikamma around 2 p.m. Commenting on this second meeting, Papa said: "Ramdas spent ten minutes with her. It is all a confusion. She does not speak and cannot write correctly. And whatever she writes, the interpreters are misinterpreting. First she wrote, it seems, that Ramdas is a realised soul and is all-knowing. Immediately after that, she asked if Ramdas had realised. Later, Ramdas was told that he should give her the Mantra. When Ramdas uttered ‘Om Sri Ram Jai Ram Jai Jai Ram’, she took down the Mantra incorrectly. Finally she wanted to know what she should do. Ramdas advised her to take Ram Nam. Her devotees wanted Ramdas to live with her for fifteen days and fast."

A devotee: Papa, they say she is not taking food or water. Is it possible for one to live as she does?

Papa: Ramdas does not think she is fasting, and cannot believe the report.

A devotee: She is going into trance very often.

Papa: She may be. One who is struggling or groping on the path and is disgusted with the world may go into such trance in the sadhana stage. But this trance is not the final thing.

297. Discourse by Puri Sankaracharya

His Holiness Sri Sankaracharya of the Puri Math, who was then camping in Hyderabad, had sent word that he would visit Papa in the evening. He came and sat on the asan specially set for him by the side of Papa. When the Acharya came, Papa was away from his seat to talk to Manikamma. Leaving her, Papa came to the shamiana where the Acharya was sitting. Papa gave him a warm embrace, touched his feet, and then sat near him.

The Acharya requested Papa to talk on something. But Papa, with folded hands, told him that he was only a servant and did not know what to speak. He further prayed that he might be pleased to speak a few words on whatever subject he liked. He agreed and gave a very interesting discourse to the audience about the glory of Ram Nam. He impressed upon everybody the importance of taking Ram Nam ceaselessly, even during sleep. He suggested that to maintain the thread of remembrance during sleep, one should intensely repeat Ram Nam for some time before going to bed and then sleep with the Name on the lips and remembrance in the mind. While waking up from sleep one must have God-thought and the repetition of the Mantra should follow. Before concluding his discourse, he chanted aloud the Mantra ‘Sri Ram Jai Ram Jai Jai Ram’ and made the audience sing it in chorus and finally advised them that to get real benefit of the japa, they must get up early in the morning and do japa regularly for at least an hour and a half daily.

The Acharya was about eighty years of age. His discouse was both inspiring and interesting.

Later, referring to his visit, Papa remarked: "How lucky we are! Mahatmas are good enough to come and give us darshan here. Today Ramdas was very happy to hear the Acharya talking about Ram Nam. Ramdas enjoyed the embrace greatly. His body is as soft as cotton."

November 16, 1953

298. Ramdas, only a child

Residence of Rani Lalitha Devi. Papa went out to see Swami Govinda Tirtha (Dattar Swami) and returned after spending a few minutes with him. The Swami was unwell, looked pale and had changed his clothes from ochre to white.

After lunch, Papa was resting. Rani Lalitha Devi and S were massaging his body. Mataji was sitting by the side of the cot.

Lalitha Devi: Papa touched Sankarcharya's feet yesterday.

Papa: He is a sannyasi and also an elderly person.

Lalitha Devi: Papa is also a sannyasi and an elderly person.

Papa: No. Ramdas is only a child and he has every right to prostrate before his father.

Lalitha Devi: What is your opinion of Sankaracharya?

Papa: He is the father and Ramdas is his child.

S (to Lalitha Devi): You cannot extract any such opinion from Papa.

Papa had closed his eyes and was quiet for some time. Heaving a sigh, he opened his eyes and said: "Ramdas has been remembering Ramkishor very much during last two days."

Mataji: Yes, since yesterday, Papa has been now and then remembering him.

When Veeraraghavan came to fan Papa, Papa said: "Ramdas will give you some work after he gets up. There is a film negative of Ramkishor. You have to get a print."

299. Das and Ram are one

In the afternoon Papa was in the bhajan-mandir for the usual talks. Papa spoke in Hindi.

A devotee: Is Ramdas still a das of Ram? If so when is he going to be Ram Himself?

Papa: Before starting the sadhana, Ramdas did not know who he was. When he started sadhana he became Ram's das. At that time his attitude was that Ram and das were different. Later he realised that das and Ram were one. Even after realising this, the dasabhava still remains, though it is Ram alone who is playing the part of das. This means that Ramdas is Ram and also His das. Can you understand now?

Till the previous day Papa was talking in English. It was only that day that he began to speak in Hindi. After giving the above answer to the devotee, he said: "Is Ramdas speaking Hindi all right? Though he was speaking Hindi in North India the previous year, he had not correctly learnt it. Now he has had some study of the language."

Mrs Damodar Rao: Papa, so many teachers sitting before you will teach you Hindi. So many gurus for Papa!

Papa: Yes, Ramdas will remain a humble disciple of all the gurus.

Ratnam: When Guha was taking Rama across the river, he was telling Rama, 'O Lord, I am taking you across this river in a boat. But you should take me across the ocean of samsar.' So also we shall teach you Hindi and you should teach us how to attain God.

300. Japa for the Handicapped

One devotee: Would any physical disability stand in the way of one's spiritual progress?

Papa: What exactly do you mean by physical disability?

Devotee: Say, one is a cripple.

Papa: Being a cripple cannot be a disqualification for spiritual progress. Such a one repeats Ram Nam and forgets all about the body. If you mean any disease in the body, there is a chance of the mind being dragged to the body often. In that case, you have to take proper medicine, get cured and then start doing your sadhana.

Damodar Rao: Suppose a man is suffering from severe heart trouble and the doctor advises him not to repeat Ram Nam. What should he do?

Papa: Let him repeat mentally.

Ratnam: But mental repetition will be difficult for a beginner.

Papa: What else can he do?

Vasudeva Rao: That patient defied the doctor's instructions and repeated Ram Nam and is now free from heart trouble.

Papa: That is it. That is exactly what Ramdas also would have suggested. But when you said that the doctor advised the patient not to repeat aloud, he suggested that mental repetition might go on. You know that doctors are, after all, bugbears.

Why should one be afraid of heart trouble by repeating Ram Nam? If on account of repeating Ram Nam the heart fails, let it go. That is the best one can do while passing away – repeating Ram Nam.

301. Progress depends on intense devotion

A devotee: Swamiji, it is said somewhere that we must repeat the Mantra as many lakhs of times as there are letters in it, before we can expect any effect. Is that correct?

Papa: Not as many lakhs, but as many crores.

A devotee: Ah, crores! Is it possible? No. It is impossible. How can one do so much japa?

Another devotee: Haridas repeated ten lakhs of time daily.

(Perhaps here each letter of the Mantra was counted as one).

The devotee: Does it take effect only after the completion of that number?

Papa: It takes effect almost immediately you start the japa. The process of purification commences and you can yourself watch your progress. Real progress depends upon the intensity of your devotion to God.

302. Only a child of Ram

A devotee: Many people say that Swami Ramdas is a great saint. What does Swamiji think about himself?

Papa: Ramdas is smaller than the smallest child of Ram. That fact is also made known to him by Ram Himself. Otherwise he does not know himself what he is and what he is not.

A devotee: Papa, you narrated yesterday how you saved that Mangalore boy who was working in a hotel. After he had your darshan, he renounced everything and left for the Himalayas. Another man full of vices was transformed by your embrace. So, will you not kindly transform us also by your power?

Papa: Mother, what are you talking? Ramdas is only a child and you are Mother Shakti – the embodiment of divine power. How could the Mother ask the child to transform Her?

The devotee: Let me remain a mother and also remain a child – both.

Papa: You can play whatever game you like. Ramdas is always your child.

The devotee: That is how you evade the question altogether. It is not that I alone want your grace. You may transform anyone of us here. I shall be satisfied.

Papa: You are the emodiment of divine power. That is how Ramdas sees you. But you pretend as if you have no power.

The devotee: That is how you see us. But we must overselves also see like that. We do not do so. Grant us that vision.

Papa: What a play is this? When you are verily that Almighty power itself, why do you ask for it?

The devotee: Swamiji, when you bless anyone, how does the blessing work upon him?

Papa: Ramdas never blesses, he only loves all.

303. A phone call

10 p.m. When Papa was about to go to bed, he was told that there was a trunk-telephone call for him from Bombay. Papa hurried up to the telephone and took up the receiver. "Hallo! Hallo! Ah, how are you? It is very good. How is Chandrakala? Oh, good. She must be completely well by the time we come there. How is your health? You must also take care of your health and be all right when we come there. Mataji is standing by his side here. Birthday! Whose? Shraddha's birthday! Ah, Shraddha! Blessings to you for a happy, prosperous, healthy and long life. How do you like it? Pranav! How do you do? Excellent. Ah, ha, ha, ha; that is very good; the best piece of news. Yes, got it this morning. All right."

The call was from Natverlal G Parikh, Bombay.