← The Gospel of Swami RamdasHis talks, as recorded by Swami Satchidananda

1953-11-25

Chapter 36

Mohol to Sakori, November 25, 1953

323. Joy in separation too

The party was to leave by 9.15 a.m. to board the passenger train for Dhond en route to Sakori.

The crowd thinned down; the devotees who came from distant villages of the district had returned to their homes. Local devotees and a few from other places were yet coming in a stream from early morning to have darshan of Papa and Mataji before their departure.

Papa mentioned to many of them that this was his last visit to Sholapur as his health might not permit his coming again.

Papa often remarked about those devotees: "These people have great love and faith. This time Ramdas has stayed here long enough to satisfy all of them who came from several villages in the district. In their overflowing love, some of them had even embraced Ramdas."

At the railway station waiting-room, Raghunath Maharaj of Uple Dumala, seated on a chair in front of Papa, was talking with great emotion of the great joy they all felt in Papa's company and the deep sorrow they would experience after his departure. "It is true", he said, "saints give joy on meeting and sorrow on parting." Papa consoled them saying that there was joy in separation also since the devotees would then be constantly thinking of their Beloved. Nanjunda Sastri, Mrs Krishna Rao, her mother-in-law and Mrs Satyanarayana Rao remained behind as they were to return to their own homes as soon as Papa and party left. So, only Mataji and S formed Papa's party, but a few devotees followed them up to Kurduwadi.

Krishnaji Ghate travelled up to Kuruwadi in Papa's compartment. While taking leave, he was so much moved that words failed him and his eyes were filled with tears. He was struggling to say something. S seeing him – a big man – weeping like a baby, was also moved and gave him a warm embrace. Mataji's eyes were moist and tears flowed down her cheeks, at Krishnaji's grief.

In the train, Papa ate the meal that was brought from Mohol, and took a short rest. He had his coffee at 3 p.m. The train was running a few minutes late.

324. Talk about Mrs Kalle

The train reached Dhond before 4 o'clock. NG Bharucha and two other devotees of the Kanya Kumari Sthan of Sakori received the party at the station and shortly afterwards they were all going in a car to Sakori.

The road was not good and so the car bumped and jolted a lot. Papa was talking on various matters to Bharucha. As the car was nearing Ahmednagar, remembering Dr Ramarao Kalle, Papa asked Bharucha if he knew him. Bharucha replied in the negative, but after a few minutes, said; "There is one old mother who came to the ashram (Sakori) last week. We were told that she is the mother of Dr Kalle."

Papa: Is she still in the Ashram?

Bharucha: Might be there. I saw her there before I left the Ashram day before yesterday.

Mataji: I thought of her only last night when I saw the Collector's mother. I was talking to S about her.

S: It seems they have not met for twentythree years.

Papa: Is it twentythree years?

Mataji: Yes.

S: It will be a happy meeting indeed.

Papa (smiling): Yes, Yes.

325. Good sadhana for S

At Ahmednagar, Papa halted for a few minutes at the residence of Dr Sahasrabhuddhe. At 6.15 p.m. the party again got into the car; Papa, Mataji and S were in the back seat. Mataji took the woollen waistcoat and asked Papa to put it on. She asked S if he was free from headache.

S: A few minutes' sleep in train made me all right.

Mataji (to Papa): His headache is like a woman's headache; also his back-ache.

Papa (to S): Are you becoming a woman? In the company of women, are you developing their nature?

Mataji: Especially after he started preparing rotis for you.

S: Yes, the company and influence of Mataji adds to it. The other day, when we went to Prof. Krishna Rao's house, I was made to sit in the midst of half a dozen mothers in the back seat of the car.

Papa: When was it? Was Ramdas not there?

S: Papa did not come there.

Mataji: S and myself sat in the back seat and one by one, so many women came and I asked them all to sit with us saying that S was to be counted among the women.

Papa: It is a good sadhana.

Mataji: This opportunity has come to you of its own accord. Take it as good sadhana.

S: Yes, it is a great sadhana, no doubt.

326. Reception at Sakori

Papa and party reached the Kanya Kumari Sthan at 8 o'clock and there was a hearty welcome by Sati Godavari Mata and the devotees of the Sthan. It was an agreeable surprise to meet there Sumitrabai Harite (Mataji's sister) and her husband, Shantaram Harite, who had come from Bombay, Rani Lalitha Devi, her daughter and Sanghi from Hyderabad, as also DV Narayanaswami of Madurai.

After the waving of lights and kumkum water, Papa entered the house of NG Bharucha; Godavari Mata garlanded Papa and Mataji and all the Kanyas and devotees had their darshan.

Papa sat in the front hall for some time until he was called in for dinner. After a wash and change of dress, Papa took just a cup of milk. Godavari Mata and a few kanyas were around Papa.

Godavari Mata: Papa, how is your health?

Papa: Health is not bad. But the journey is very tiresome.

Godavari Mata: It was a great joy and surprise to us when news came about Papa's decision to come here.

Papa: You have simply pulled him by your power.

Godavari Mata: I have no power, Papa. The power is all yours.

Papa: No, how can it be? You are the embodiment of power.

Sakori, November 26, 1953

327. Mataji's love is for all

Kanya Kumari Sthan. Trasi Sundar Rao, Appibai and her sister came early in the morning from Bombay. Mataji was at her breakfast after Papa had finished his. They joined Mataji. Papa was strolling in the hall. Dr Ramarao Kalle's mother, Anasuyabai (Mataji's mother-in-law) came and stood before Papa with folded hands. Seeing her near Papa, Mataji who had then taken her breakfast got up and came smiling towards the old mother. Looking at Mataji, the old mother was moved to tears. She took Mataji's hands in hers, saying: "What a long time since we met! What a long time since we met last!" and wiped her moist eyes. Mataji, who was smiling all the while, enquired if she would have a cup of coffee. Though she replied that she would not, later she agreed and Mataji, rinsing her hands, herself prepared coffee and gave her a cup. They did not talk much, and after she had taken coffee she left.

Then S asked Mataji how she felt.

Mataji: I feel as if I have done a great thing.

S: What is that great thing?

Mataji: Meeting her.

S: Did she talk about anything? Has she gone? She was telling Papa she would be going away this afternoon.

Mataji: I asked her where she was going and as she said that she was going to Bombay, I again asked her why she should not stay on and travel with us to Bombay. She said she would write to Dr Ramarao and decide later. These people might have been thinking that I have no love for them. Of course, for some time I had no love for them. Why for them? I had no love for even my own body. To realise the formless eternal aspect of Papa, one has to go beyond names and forms, even one's own name and body. After realising my oneness with Papa who is the transcendent Truth and also the entire manifestation, there cannot be anybody outside the sphere of my love.

328. Conversation with inmates

At 11.30 a.m. Godavari Mata brought Papa's meal and, with the assistance of the kanyas, served him.

Papa listened to the discourse of Kumari Usha on Jnaneshwari between 4 p.m. and 5 p.m. at the Zopadi, the place for bhajans and discourses, where there is a beautiful statute of Sri Upasani Baba.

9 p.m. Papa was sitting on a big cane-chair in the spacious hall of Bharucha's house. Godavari Mata and a few kanyas were sitting before him. Kumari Usha and another kanya were massaging Papa's legs, sitting close to him.

Godavari Mata: Papa, you were gracious enough to come here for a second time. You have to come here for the third time also.

Papa: Third time! Don't know. If Ram wills, he will surely come.

Mataji, who was a little away, laughed at this and said: "Papa was saying in Sholapur that this would be his last visit to that place. Here he is giving you some hope."

One Kanya: We feel blessed by your visit, Papa.

Papa: Why, you have this mother here, a great soul. She is the holy Godavari, holy from birth.

One Kanya: By your presence, the Godavari will be sanctified.

Papa: No, so many people go and bathe in the Godavari and get purified. Of course, it is said that saints sanctify places they go to. But Ramdas is only a child.

Mataji came with some sweets and distributed them to all present in the hall. To those who were massaging Papa's legs she said, "I shall put it in your mouth so that you may not have to get up to rinse your hands."

Seeing Mataji giving sweets to all, Papa remarked: "She is an expert in feeding. She is in her element when she has some food to distribute. That is the nature of the Mother."

After a little pause Papa said, "Ramdas hesitates to speak before you all about anything. You give such fine and eloquent pravachans that Ramdas feels small before you. It is mentioned in the programme that Ramdas has to talk at the Zopadi between 4 and 5 tomorrow evening. He wonders what he can talk to you about."

Kumari Usha: Papa, of what can we all talk? What effect has our talk on others? A glance from you will work wonders.

329. Sahaja Samadhi

Papa did not reply. His eyes were closed and he was evidently thinking deeply. Opening his eyes and gazing at nobody but at something beyond, he said: "There are various types of samadhis, Sahaja samadhi is the highest. In that there is no break at all. He who is in Sahaja samadhi is established in the Purushottama and enjoys constant bliss. He has no more sadhana to do. Without any effort he maintains this bliss while living and moving in the world. Somebody asked Ramdas why he is not repeating Ram Nam. Who is to repeat Ram Nam? The one who was repeating has ceased to exist, having become one with Ram. In a poem written many years ago, Ramdas has said something to this effect. This does not mean there is no possibility of separation. There is separation, yet no separation. This is the state of para-bhakti. There is the greatest joy in it. The jnanis and sannyasis do not realise this and therefore cannot enjoy it. You all know about these things."

Kumari Usha: No, no, Papa. We know nothing. We may talk something, but lack the experience.

Papa: Ram must make us mad of Him. Ramdas prayed to Ram to make him mad of Him so that he might think of Him constantly, keeping His name on the tongue without break. And Ram did make him mad. He gave up food and sleep and with the Name on his tongue, wandered about in jungles like a mad man. He was staying in such wild places as would make one tremble with fear.

Bharucha came up and told Papa, pointing out to Kumari Usha: "Papa, this is the lion of Sakori. The other one sitting opposite to her is the lamb."

Papa: One must be the Vedanta Kesari, and the other, the lamb of Sakori.

Usha: Papa, when will you come again?

Papa: Ramdas does not know.

Usha: Papa knows everything.

Papa: He knows and knows not.

November 27, 1953

330. Oneness and individuality

2.30 p.m. Only a couple of devotees were with Papa who was seated in the hall.

S: While talking to the kanyas yesterday, Papa referred to a poem. It is said there that having bathed, danced and played in the Mother's love, the Mother raised her veil, the game of love ceased and there existed one only. Papa prayed to the Mother to give him birth again to enjoy that play. If Papa lost himself in the Mother, who was there to pray? If Papa prayed, it means, Papa was maintaining the individuality, when there was no necessity for such a prayer.

Papa: Yes, Ramdas can see, it is a contradiction. There must have been a subtle trace of individuality while praying and he has been reborn as the eternal child of the Mother.

S: If there was a trace of individuality then, is there any difference between that and the individuality that Papa now has?

Papa: That is beyond expression. Ramdas cannot explain what it is.

Karkhanawala: If there is absolute oneness and there is no trace of individuality, how can one sustain the body?

Papa: God sustains it. He has complete control over Prakriti. He can well take care of the body of one who is completely lost in Him.

331. War and saints

Karkhanawala: If that is the case, can He not stop the war and misery in the world?

Papa: Yes, He can. He works through saints. Generally He does not interfere with the workings of nature. When there is a war impending, if a saint says that the war will not break out, it will not. When the war is on, if the saint says the war should stop, it will.

S: Is it a prophecy or an assertion?

Papa: In the former case it is a prophecy and in the latter an assertion.

332. Saints work on different planes

Karkhanawala: Why is it that when some saints have prophesied, nothing happened?

Papa: It must be God who should prophesy or assert. It means that the saints should be completely in tune with God. Prophecy in that state has to come true. When he is not fully in tune with God, it may not come true.

Karkhanawala: How is it that a saint, who has attained the highest, is sometimes in tune with God and sometimes not?

Papa: Saints work on different planes. They have to work through prakriti and, for that, working from different planes is necessary. They have to come down from the highest to work through prakriti. One who remains always in the nirguna cannot be of any help to aspirants. Gurus help aspirants by coming down to prakriti, at the same time standing above it. Really God's ways are mysterious.

333. When 'Talks' benefit

Swami Chaitanyananda of the Ramakrishna Mission, who had been staying with Dr AM Patel at Khar for the four months, had come to Sakori the day before Papa's arrival. Papa had not met him so far. Knowing that he was to give a discourse that evening, and Papa had to attend the same, Papa asked the devotees if that Swami had come. They replied that he had been there for the last four days. Papa then sent for him. The Swamiji came in fifteen minutes or so and sat near Papa. Papa greeted him, saying, "Swamiji, you are so gracious to come."

After the usual and formal enquiries about where he stayed, when he came, and so on, Papa asked about his pravachan that evening.

Swamiji: They want me to speak. I shall speak something.

Papa: They expect Ramdas also to make a pravachan. Ramdas does not know how to talk, and his Hindi is faulty. In what language do you speak?

Swamiji: I generally speak in Hindi, but here I might speak in Marathi though my Marathi is very faulty. Your faulty Hindi and my faulty Marathi can be much fun. After all it is only a fun. Who is benefited by hearing our talks? Absolutely none. Unless there is an awakening within the listeners, these talks cannot help anybody.

Papa: Ramdas fully agrees with your view.

Swamiji: Yes, Swamiji, people hear the talk and say afterwards that Swamiji spoke well or they pick out some faults and try to corner him. This is all the after-effect of the talk.

A devotee: Why is it that the philosophies of various saints differ?

Papa: Because they are trying to express the inexplicable, which is beyond the range of thought. As Buddha has it, "Do not dip the string of thought into the unfathomable. He who questions errs and he who answers errs”. So, trying to know God with our mind is like a salt doll measuring the depths of the ocean. It goes a few inches down and dissolves. So, who can measure the glory of God? It is impossible.

After casual talk for a few minutes, the Swamiji took his leave of Papa.

334. Descent of Guru's grace – joy of service

9 p.m. Papa was sitting in a cane chair. Rani Lalitha Devi, Sundar Rao, Appibai and a few others were with him.

Lalitha Devi: You were saying that Guru's grace is transmitted to the disciple in three ways: by look, touch and thought. Why is it that you do not place your hand on our heads?

Papa: You are touching his feet. So the touch is there. In some cases Ramdas places his hand on the heads of devotees. Whenever somebody places his head on Ramdas’ feet he must feel the effect.

Lalitha Devi: I do not find I am experiencing anything.

Papa: You must be prepared to receive it; you must be receptive and extremely humble. When you prostrate thus, your mind gets stilled and you enjoy peace of the Absolute for a few seconds.

Lalitha Devi: Will that one touch take the devotee to the goal?

Papa: Sometimes one touch will do. Sometimes many are required. With that experience, you must do intense sadhana – repetition of Ram Nam. And each experience will give you added joy in the repetition. That will take you forward quickly.

Jijibai: When I hear Ram Nam or any other bhajan song, I feel a sort of commotion inside. My eyes are filled with tears. Though I do not experience anything higher, this much is there.

Papa: Sri Ramakrishna has said that those who shed tears on hearing God's name will have no rebirth. You must have overflowing love for the Name. See that friend Narayanaswami, who came from Madurai and left this morning. He sheds tears profusely as soon as he sees Ramdas or sits for bhajan.

Lalitha Devi: Shivmohanlal in Hyderabad also shed tears profusely during bhajan.

Lalitha Devi started stroking Papa's feet.

Papa: You are all stroking Ramdas’ legs. What do you get by that? Do you get any immediate results or are you doing it in anticipation of some future results?

Mataji, who had just joined the group, said, "Come on, answer all of you. Papa is the examiner. Answer the question."

Lalitha Devi: I do it because I feel like doing it and I feel happy then.

Sundar Rao: I want to do a bit of service to the Guru and I am happy doing it.

Appibai: I enjoy massaging Papa's feet. That is all I know.

Sundar Rao: What is Mataji's opinion?

Mataji was silent.

Papa: Why don't you say?

Mataji: All the answers are right. Everybody does it because he or she finds joy in doing so. But when I was doing it, I was praying at the same time to Papa to take me into His supreme Being.

Papa: A saint is a kalpataru and whatever one desires in his presence, one gets. But many desire only worldly things, better business, better salary, cure of diseases and so on.

Mataji: They do so because they do not know that there is something higher to pray for.

Papa: They do not know! Even if we talk to them of the higher life, they say they want worldly gains.

Sundar Rao: Now what has Papa got to say about the answers?

Papa: Ramdas already told you; a saint is a kalpataru and grants you anything you desire. Ramdas had unfortunately no opportunity to serve saints and he does not know that joy.

Mataji: You did not need to serve.

Papa: Needed or not is not the question. He never knew what joy it was to serve saints.

Mataji: When I did any service to Papa, I did it with the prayer that I should be absorbed in His Being. Now I do it with the prayer for universal good. Some time ago when I prostrated at Papa's feet, I prayed to Papa to bless some persons, naming them. But that did not work well. The persons concerned showed no improvement. So, instead of having in my mind certain names and forms, I decided to pray for the entire universe.

Papa: Now Ramdas remembers the joy he had when he stroked Mataji's feet.

Sundar Rao: When was that?

Mataji (laughing): Oh, Papa did so once in the Ashram. I was sleeping in the afternoon with some pain in the body, and made some noise during sleep. Papa thought I had pain in the legs and so started massaging my legs. When I woke up I saw Papa sitting by my side; he said he did so because I did not allow anybody else to massage my legs. Thereafter, I agreed to allow others to massage my legs.

Papa: Shall Ramdas massage your legs and see how much Ramdas enjoys it.

Mataji: No, Papa. You are already doing it through your other forms here.

335. Enshrining Papa in the heart

Papa was in the hall of Bharucha's house. Seated before him were many devotees of the Kanya Kumari Sthan on one side, and Sati Godavari Mata and Kanyas on the other. Dr Patel, an elderly devotee of the Sthan, was sitting close to Papa.

Dr Patel: Papa, I must amputate both your feet and keep them with me for ever, and you will grow the feet again.

S: Doctor cannot find any other way of keeping Papa's feet with him constantly.

Papa: You must enshrine the feet in your heart. Why the feet alone, enshrine Ramdas himself.

Doctor: You must come and remain there.

Papa: As if Ramdas is not there already.

Doctor: You are an avatar of Hanuman. You must give me darshan in that form.

Papa: You are pucca (ripe). See, all your hair, even moustache, are grey, being ripe.

Doctor: Your darshan must make me younger.

Papa: You are ripe now, why do you want to be young? One sannyasi, who was with us on tour for some time, asked Mataji, 'How am I?' Mataji told him frankly, 'Tum Achhcha hai lekin thoda kachhcha hai" (You are all right, but you are a bit unripe). You are fully ripe. Your heart is filled with prem. Where there is no abhiman there is prem.

336. Mataji's attitude to blood relations

Mataji had to send a letter written in Malayalam to Balamma in the ashram. It was past 9 p.m. when S reminded her of the letter; she said that it might be written in the morning. Mataji's letters were usually very long, covering eight or ten pages and would take many days to write.

S: What did doctor's mother, Anasuyabai, tell you this morning? You were talking for a long time.

Mataji: I find it hard to remember what we talked about. I shall however try. I am trying to recollect how the talk started. Yes, yesterday morning she asked me not to forget the children. I was about to reply: "When I myself am a child, whom am I to take care of?" But I did speak that out. I thought, as it did not matter whatever way I talked, I would rather talk what she would like. Some interruption came and the trend of the talk was broken. Again this morning, some reference came. I heard that she had been telling people that I was saying I had given up samsar. What have I given up? Giving up one samsar, I have got another. So I wanted to reply to her on this point. As she did not ask this of me direct, I had to reply indirectly through another lady who was standing near. I told her that some might have been feeling that I have no longer any love for Ganesh and Narayan. How could that be? At one time I had to disown all my relations and even my own body, so that I might be absorbed in Papa's Eternal Being. Having been absorbed in Papa's Being and realising that the whole universe is myself, I love all alike. I may appear to be loving one more than another. It is like this. Take this body for example. I pay more attention to that part that aches or pains. That part of my body that does not get my attention does not cease to be mine. That I do not pay much attention to Ganesh and Narayan does not mean that they are not mine. Anasuyakka listened to this quietly and agreed with me.

Sumitrabai, Mataji's sister, later told Papa that Anasuyabai was happy after her talk with Mataji and that she was then going to ask Ganesh and Narayan to go to Mataji more often and remain in close touch with her.

November 28, 1953

337. Papa at the samadhi of Sri Sai Baba

At 3 p.m. Papa and a big party, including Godavari Mata, left for Shirdi to pay homage to the great saint of Shirdi, Sri Sai Baba at his samadhi.

Entering the big samadhi hall, Papa and others went near the samadhi. The person who was sitting there suggested that Papa might climb up to the raised platform to place the garland and prostrate. Papa climbed up, put the garland and placed his head on the Samadhi. While descending, Papa came to the extreme end of the wooden box that was placed on the smooth stone-step and was about to lower one foot down. But the box tilted, having lost its balance. Papa slipped. Before the box completely toppled down, Mataji, who was standing close by, held Papa with her hands and supported the box with one knee. Papa had now slipped down, his back rubbing against the wooden box. Immediately, others helped to raise Papa. Except for slight bruises on the back, there was no other injury. Mataji was a bit anxious about it and gave a hot fomentation to his back before he went to bed. Later, referring to this Papa said, "Ramdas did namaskar with his forehead, but Sai Baba wanted him to do namaskar with the back also!"

338. Visit to jaggery factory

At Shirdi, bhajan was held for an hour and a half, after which Papa went round the place and left about 5.15 p.m. On the way was the sugarcane farm of Ramarao Patel of Sakori whose house Papa had visited two days earlier. It was said that Ramarao Patel's father was responsible for bringing Upasani Baba to Sakori and subsequently establishing the Sthan there. At his request, Papa got down at his farm where they were crushing sugarcane and preparing jaggery. Papa, Mataji and Godavari Mata were seated in the centre of the jaggery manufactory. Fresh jaggery was offered to Papa and distributed to all; later, sugarcane juice was also distributed to all present, though Papa could take only a little. It was a very happy gathering where love overflowed. Dr Patel and Bharucha were like little children; Dr Patel placing his head on Papa's lap, rolled like a child and Papa patted him on the back. The whole party returned to Sakori by 6.15 p.m.

339. Good use of money

After evening meal, Papa sat on the chair. A few devotees and Mataji sat before him.

A devotee (Parsi lady): Swamiji, what is the use of money?

Papa: For giving away.

Devotee: To whom?

Papa: To the needy.

Devotee: How are we to find out who is the needy?

Papa: That you have to find out.

Devotee: This is very difficult. Sometimes some persons appear to be deserving, but if you go deep into the matter you will see that they actually do not deserve.

Papa: If you go on analysing that way, you will not find any one really deserving. That would mean you do not want to give your money away.

Devotee: Then, are we to give to anybody who comes and asks for help, as service to God?

Papa: That is the right way of giving. Your heart will be the right guide to decide if one is deserving or not.

Devotee: Baba used to say that if we give money to beggars, we will be taking on their suffering.

Papa: Is it not better to suffer for others?

Devotee: Baba meant that when we give we should not think that we are giving away to beggars but to God only.

Papa: Of course, that is how it should be done. When we have money we must try to relieve others of their suffering. If our heart does not melt at the suffering of others, how can we expect God's heart to melt at ours? Christ said: 'Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who have trespassed against us.' Now, it is time that we went there. Bhajan has started.

Papa got up and went to the hall where the kanyas had started bhajan.

340. Effect of Papa's presence

9.45 p.m. Bedtime. Papa was being given fomentation to allay the effect of the fall at Shirdi. Mataji was sitting near the cot.

Papa: Many are saying that they get great joy at the very sight of Ramdas. What else has Ramdas got to give? Is that not enough that he radiates joy to others by his very glance?

Mataji: You have now only to make that joy permanent with them all.

Papa: When they experience the joy once, they will strive hard and finally have it permanently.

November 29, 1953

341. Papa worshipped as Upasani Baba

Kanya Kumari Sthan: Papa was taken round the Sthan by Godavari Mata and Jijibai. First they went to the new room constructed for Godavari Mata and occupied by her. From there they went to the room where Baba's swinging cradle hung. Papa was asked to sit in it. Mataji was also pressed to sit at Papa's side. She refused and stood aloof, looking at Papa. Jijibai brought a crown which they used to put on Baba's statue, and placed it on Papa's head. The cradle was swung for a while by the kanyas with their usual cradle song. They then took him to the kanyas' quarters where there was another cradle. Papa sat in it. The same crown was put on his head, he was adorned with a beautiful silk cloth, and a flute was placed in his hand which made him look like Sri Krishna. They prostrated before him saying that he was their Baba. Papa asked them: "If you make him your Baba, who will be Swami Ramdas?" They only smiled. It was a joy to see how Papa submitted himself to whatever the kanyas wished him to do. After seeing Baba's room and the kanyas' school, they returned to the Zopadi, where kirtan had started.

When the kirtan was over, Jijibai took Papa to her room where pooja was done; with their usual song and a couple of flowers in hand, two kanyas removed the effect of any evil eye that might have been cast on Papa. It took a few minutes. What wonderful patience Papa showed when he submitted quietly to the removal of the effects of evil eye also!

November 30, 1953

342. Departure for Bombay

Kanya Kumari Sthan. It was the day for Papa's departure. The eyes of the kanyas were brimming with tears. The kanya, who was serving Papa with great love and devotion and doing all the work at Bharucha's house, was quite grief-stricken at the very thought of Papa's departure. At 10.15 a.m., Papa and Mataji were at the Zopadi, giving darshan to all the devotees. Godavari Mata herself did Pada-pooja, assisted by some kanyas. Before finally leaving the Sthan, Papa and Mataji were again at the Zopadi for a few minutes.

Bombay, December 1, 1953

343. With students of philosophy

Papa and party had arrived in Bombay after nine o'clock the previous night. A large number of devotees had received Papa at the railway station and taken them all to Ivorine, the residence of Natverlal G Parikh.

A stream of devotees flowed in from early morning.

In the afternoon, some devotees were sitting before Papa, asking some questions. Prof. JN Chubb brought a batch of his students in philosophy. Two among them had a few questions while others remained quiet. Two English ladies also joined the group.

A devotee: It is said that we can make this world a heaven. How?

Papa: By giving up ego-sense.

Devotee: Is the ego also not divine?

Papa: If you have realised that the ego is divine, then you have realised that everything is divine, and the world is then a heaven.

Devotee: Swami Vivekananda says in his writings that for God-realisation one should become a sannyasi. Swami Rama Tirtha says it is not necessary. Why do these great saints differ?

Papa: Ramdas does not recall Swami Vivekananda having said so anywhere. Where has he mentioned it? Have you read it yourself?

Devotee: No. A friend told me.

Papa: Before you make a statement, be sure of it.

Devotee: Are fasts helpful for spiritual progress?

Papa: An aspirant has to judge for himself whether fasting can help him keep his mind under control. No other person can give him guidance in this matter. He must himself study the state of his mind both while fasting and not fasting and decide.

Devotee: How can we know whether our prayers are answered or not?

Papa: It is better that our prayers are not answered at all, because we do not know what to pray for. One devotee prayed, 'O God, do not grant my prayers. In my foolishness I may ask for things that might harm me. You know what is best for me'.

344. Benefit of Self-realisation

A student: How does Self-realisation of an individual help society?

Papa: By Self-realisation you become happy inwardly and therefore seek nothing from outside. So, your activities flow out only for the uplift and good of others. A man who is discontented within seeks for external things in order to get happiness, and by doing so harms society. He thinks he will get happiness from external objects. When you have found true happiness by realising the Self, that is by realising that your true nature is absolute peace and bliss, you are not in conflict with anybody, your vision is equal and your activities turn to the service of everyone. Then it is that you become the true instrument of God. Our little self stands in the way of our doing good to the world. Not only do we not do good, but we harm the world, as the spirit of exploitation seizes us and we do things only as prompted by the ego. After Self-realisation, our life will be entirely dedicated to the service of humanity. The happiest man is the most generous man. The miserly and selfish man, besides being miserable himself, makes others near him also unhappy.

Student: When he gets the supreme Bliss, he indulges in it for himself. How are others benefited by that?

Papa: That is not like the enjoyment of the senses. A burning lamp cannot hide its light. So, when bliss is experienced within yourself, you spread it everywhere around you. It is not for any one individual, but for the whole universe.

A devotee: It is said that Self-realised beings do not move in society. Is that correct?

Papa: Are you sure? If so, give an example. The great teachers were not selfish. They did not keep to themselves the spiritual knowledge they had gained. They lived in the world to elevate those who came into contact with them. Take the case of Buddha and Shankara. How much did they move about for the uplift of the people! They did not keep away from society or remain in solitude.

Devotee: What I feel is that they do not have the initiative to go out and spread the message.

Papa: You are wrong. Ramdas gave the examples of two great teachers who sacrificed all their lives delivering the divine message to the people.

Devotee: That is not generally the case. Many do not like the idea of going out and preaching. They wish to keep to themselves whatever they have.

Papa: If selfish, they are not genuinely spiritually illumined. Those who are really spiritually illumined will be absolutely selfless in their activities.

345. On meditation and prayer

Devotee: How to attain our real Being?

Papa: By constant meditation that you are the Spirit and not the body. By such constant thought and meditation it is that you realise your true Being.

Devotee: How can that be done by an ordinary man?

Papa: What Ramdas said now is for the ordinary man. If one is an extraordinary man, then there is no struggle for him to get at the Truth.

Devotee: Then, why can't ordinary men realise the Truth?

Papa: They do not want to. If they want to, they can, of course.

Devotee: Self-realisation is wanted by all.

Papa: No, not at all. Go and ask people if they want Self-realisation. They will tell you they do not want it as they have something or other to do.

Devotee: How to persuade them to strive for Self-realisation?

Papa: To persuade them you yourself experience the Self first. An illumined soul alone can kindle another.

Devotee: Is there no other way to realise God than by meditation?

Papa: Unless you constantly meditate that you are the Self, how can you realise Him? You have forgotten your true being. You must try to remember Him constantly. Otherwise you cannot tear off the veil of ignorance.

Devotee: By doing good actions, can one not realise God?

Papa: Good actions help you to purify your mind which in turn, aids you in meditation.

Devotee: What are good actions?

Papa: Actions done with the remembrance of God are good actions and those done in the forgetfulness of God are bad. Good actions take you nearer to God and bad actions farther from Him.

An English lady: May I know if it is true that however much we may strive for Self-realisation, karma plays a great part in our life and often stands in the way of our progress and does not enable us to attain it in this life?

Papa: How can we know our karma is such that we cannot attain Realisation in this life? On the other hand, we must consider that karma is favourable to us and carry on our spiritual practices optimistically. A pessimist has no chance of progress.

English lady: For meditation, is it necessary that one should sit in a particular posture and have a particular time? Does it harm one to meditate as and when one feels like doing so? I have tried to meditate in a stereotyped way but find that my best meditation comes when I have finished reading the ‘Bhagavad Gita’.

Papa: You seem to know the best time for your meditation. So you may have your meditation at the time you feel like doing so. The best posture for meditation is the one that enables you to sit comfortably. There are people who do not know when exactly they should meditate. For them, some fixed hours are necessary; for you it is not.

English lady: Strange as it may seem, I cannot understand. To meditate, one must be still, but I feel sometimes that my best moments of meditation are when I am walking.

Papa: It is perfectly all right. Go on with your practice. You must have joy in meditation. You should not force it. It must come spontaneously.

A devotee: I am sticking to one Name, but I am attracted to different forms – sometimes Rama, sometimes Krishna. Is it wrong?

Papa: No, it is not at all wrong if you give the same name to all the forms. The One is in many forms. Ultimately you have to transcend all names and forms and reach that supreme consciousness in which there is no movement or change. So, names and forms are a help only to enable you to rise beyond them.

Devotee: Does it mean that one should have only one Name?

Papa: For constant practice one Name is much better. You can, of course, repeat other Names during bhajans and kirtans; the rest of the time, you have to repeat one Name only.

Devotee: Sometimes it happens that I feel like worshipping one avatar for a few days, then another avatar and yet another, though I keep repeating the one Name.

Papa: It is all right. Continue your worship. All avatars are forms of the same Truth. To climb up a roof you can use a rope or a ladder. Whatever method you adopt, your object is to climb and reach the top and go beyond the rope and ladder.

A student: What is the best time for prayer, morning or evening?

Papa: You must pray whenever you feel like praying. Prayer must give you joy and should not be done as a matter of routine. Your prayer must be intense. It must give you such a divine intoxication as to enable you to carry on your daily activities with great joy and peace. This is the purpose of meditation and prayer.

December 2, 1953

346. The Vision

Ivorine. Papa had just got up and washed his face. Sriram Trikannad was the first to have Papa's darshan in the morning. When he was talking to Papa, some reference was made to ‘The Vision’.

Papa: How do you like the new get-up of ‘The Vision’.

Sriram: It is excellent.

Papa: What about the contents?

Sriram: Devotees like them more nowadays as there are more articles of and about Papa.

Papa: Were they not reading the other articles in the older issues?

Sriram: It was all dry jnana.

Papa: Now it is all wet jnana, is it?

Sriram: Papa may better call it sweet jnana.

Papa: Is it because Ramdas is sweet? There is a lot of sugar in his blood. So he is sweet, much sweeter than before.

S: How did Papa get diabetes?

Papa: Because God willed that he should be sweet. Ramdas was at one time very strict in his diet, not for the sake of the body but for controlling the mind. But later he was not strict, as he had nothing like a mind to control. His habits also became sedentary. That might be responsible for the diabetes. Now he has to control his diet to keep down the disease.

347. Go beyond external worship

11 a.m. Bhajan was over and most of the devotees had left. A few were lingering on, waiting for a chance to talk to Papa alone, if possible. It was hard for them to get Papa alone. Papa came to the room followed by a few devotees, one of them a Member of Parliament. When Papa sat on the chair they sat at his feet and started their questions.

MP: In a house, when the wife has devotion to God and has her daily routine of worship and so on, the husband, who is not in favour of a religious life, is annoyed and there is friction. What is she to do then?

Papa: If the husband does not like the wife's external worship of God, the wife should not try to go against him. She can very well take to the mental repetition of God's name and consider that her husband's attitude is only to enable her to go within, giving up the external worship. Sooner or later one has to go beyond the external forms of worship, in order to meditate on the indwelling Reality. In this connection, Ramdas will tell you a story.

"There lived a king and a queen. The queen was a very devout woman, engaged most of the time in the worship of God and repetition of His name. She was happy in every way except that her husband had no devotion to God. She wished very much that her husband also should have devotion for God. She never saw him sitting for prayers or heard him repeat God's name. So she was unhappy. Thus days and months rolled by.

"One night when the queen woke up from sleep, she heard the king, who was sleeping by her side, uttering 'Ram, Ram". This gave her supreme happiness. To hear her husband repeat God's name was no small joy to her. To celebrate this event, she arranged a grand feast, the next day, with great pomp. When the king found the preparations going on for the unusual festival, he enquired of the queen what the matter was. The queen replied that it was a very important day in her life as she heard him repeat God's name at least in sleep. Hearing this, the king was taken aback. He was sorry because his spiritual discipline, which he had so long held a close secret, had now come to light.

"So also a wife can carry on her spiritual practices without parading them. By her faith, in course of time, she might even be able to turn her husband to the Godward path.

348. Ponnu's method

There was more than the usual rush of devotees in the evening. It was past 10 o'clock when they all left, and Papa and Mataji retired. They were to go to Bhavnagar early next morning.

When Papa went to bed, Bansidharbhai and Navnitbhai sat at his side, massaging his legs, while S massaged the back.

Bansidharbhai: Papa has kept us in suspense about that story. When are we going to hear it?

Papa: Ramdas will tell you in Ahmedabad.

Bansidharbhai: It will be three months then.

Papa: Ramdas shall keep you in suspense till then. This will make you more and ever more eager to hear it.

Bansidharbhai: Papa, what is that story about?

Papa: That is called Ponnu's method. Ramdas first told it to Appibai. But before he told her, he kept Mataji and Appibai in suspense for a long time. Mataji got tired of waiting. But when she heard it from Ramdas, she laughed and laughed. Ramdas then told it to Dada (Butani), but not the solution. He tried for some days to worm it out of Mataji but with no success.

Bansidharbhai: Whose story is it?

Papa: It is a story based on facts.

Bansidharbhai: Where did it happen?

Papa: Now you are trying to pump it out. Ramdas is not going to tell you now.

S: What about the scorpion story of Birbal?

Papa (Immediately sitting up): That story will make you all laugh and roll on the ground. But Ramdas cannot tell that also at present. It is not for all.

S: When Papa told it to Mataji she laughed so much that her face turned red.

Bansidharbhai: Such an interesting story we should all hear, Papa.

Papa: Not now. Wait for another occasion.

Bhavnagar, December 3, 1953

349. Departure for Bhavnagar

7.30 a.m. Papa and party left for the aerodrome. The plane took off at 8.30 a.m. and reached Bhavnagar at 10 a.m. Anubhai Kamdar, son of Gunvantrai Kamdar, accompanied the party from Bombay. At Bhavnagar they were received by Sumatilal Kamdar, his family and a number of devotees. They then proceeded straight to Ramdas Ashram.

Papa was told that Sri Bindu Maharaj, a great devotee and exponent of the ‘Ramayana’, was in Bhavnagar and had been giving pravachan on the ‘Ramayana’ every evening in the spacious Town Hall.

Sumatilal: Sri Bindu Maharaj was happy when he knew Papa was coming here but was disappointed to learn that Papa was not halting here but going straight to Rajkot. Then he told me that he would come to the aerodrome and have your darshan. Now that you are here for two days, he will have your darshan at the Town Hall.

Papa: Ramdas would also be happy to have his darshan and hear his pravachan on the ‘Ramayana’.

350. Meeting with the Maharaja, Bindu Maharaj and Sai Sattar Shah

4.15 p.m. Papa was at the Town Hall. On the raised platform were arranged a beautiful pedestal in the centre, a sofa to the right, and a few chairs to the left. Papa was seated on the sofa. In a few minutes the Maharaja Saheb of Bhavnagar came with his family, garlanded Papa and expressed his joy in having the good fortune of Papa's darshan. He and his family took their seats on chairs to the left. A few minutes later Sri Bindu Maharaj entered and the Maharaja stood up and bowed down to him with folded hands. Before Sri Bindu Maharaj came near the seat, Papa also stood up and went forward to receive him. Seeing that Papa was coming towards him, Sri Bindu Maharaj halted there, and with folded hands requested Papa to take his seat. So Papa could not receive him as he wished to and turned back and took his seat. Sri Bindu Maharaj seated himself on the raised pedestal in the centre. The Maharaja Saheb garlanded him as well.

The pravachan that day was on the tenth of the eleven qualities of Sri Rama. It mainly dealt with love and was quite interesting and elevating.

It was nearly 6.30 p.m. when the pravachan was over, with the usual prayers. Papa and Sri Bindu Maharaj got up and exchanged a few words of joy on meeting each other. Before they left, Sri Bindu Maharaj promised to come over and see Papa at the Ashram.

When Papa returned to the Ashram, he was happy to hear that Sai Sattar Shah had arrived. Sai Sattar Shah, a Sufi saint, was residing at Rajpipla. Whenever Papa went to Bhavnagar, Sai Sattar Shah would make it a point to go and stay there and take part in the bhajans. He liked Papa's company very much and had the highest regard for him. Papa also respected him very much, found joy in his company, dined with him and made him sit always on a chair at his side.

December 4, 1953

Sri Bindu Maharaj came to Ramdas Ashram unexpectedly and stood before Papa. Papa greeted him saying: "Well, you have come! Please take your seat" (showing the chair nearby).

Sri Bindu Maharaj: I took this opportunity to come and have your darshan.

Papa: It is very kind of you.

Bindu Maharaj: No, no, Maharaj! I am fortunate to have your darshan. I had been to Aurobindo Ashram and Ramanashram, but did not get a chance to visit you at your ashram.

Papa: That is why Ramdas has come to your feet. You are none but Ram Himself. For Ramdas everybody is the form of Ram and he is blissfully moving about like a child. Ram is so gracious that He takes him to places where he can have darshan of saints, and very often saints also come to give him darshan. That is what He has said in the ‘Gita’: 'Yogakshemam Vahamyaham'.

Bindu Maharaj: This is what is meant by Atma Sakshatkar.

Papa: Ramdas is coming again this evening to drink the nectar you distribute to all at your pravachan.

Bindu Maharaj took his leave. Papa attended the evening pravachan that day also. At the close Bindu Maharaj and Papa stood up together, and with folded hands bowed to each other.

Papa: Very happy to hear your pravachan.

Bindu Maharaj: I was very happy to have your darshan. I am coming here at this time every year and would very much like to be at your service.

They walked together up to the car. Papa got into the car and Sri Bindu Maharaj saw him off.