← The Gospel of Swami RamdasHis talks, as recorded by Swami Satchidananda

1953-11-09

Chapter 31

Anantapur, November 9, 1953

270. Meditation must accompany fasting

2 p.m. Satyanarayana Rao's house. It was the time fixed for questions and answers.

A devotee: It is said in the ‘Bhagavad Gita’ that even if the senses are kept under control by starving them, the desire for sense-enjoyment persists and will disappear only after the realisation of the Supreme.

Papa: Is it physical fasting or fasting of the senses? Even physical fasting helps to a great extent in controlling the senses. Fasting makes the senses weak. That is the best time for meditation. Mere fasting will not help you in destroying the sense-desires. Fasting must be accompanied by deep meditation.

Ramdas used to fast. But his fasts were, in a sense, feasts. Whenever Ram commanded him to go on a fast, he felt very jubilant as if he was going to have a feast. During the fast he was in a state of bliss, as his mind used to lose itself in the divine. At that time, repetition of the Name would stop and he used to be in a state of ecstasy. He was never troubled by hunger while fasting.

All cannot fast this way. Some people, while fasting, instead of remembering God, remember food. The thought of laddus and other sweets will be revolving in their minds. It is because they have not yet experienced the taste of the divine sweetness within them. If they once taste it, even though for a short time, they will never divert their minds towards sense-objects.

271. The inner joy manifests in saint's presence

Devotee: Why not Swamiji bless us with that bliss at least for one moment, so that our minds may always be attuned to it?

Papa: It is for that very purpose that Ramdas has come here. Those who are ready and prepared to receive it shall certainly have it. The joy that you get in the company of saints is not the joy that the saint gives you but that which manifests from within you. In the presence of the saint, the flood-gates of joy within you open out and you seem to swim in it. You have noticed the lotus buds blossoming beautifully, giving out all their fragrance, at dawn. The sun is only an ostensible cause for the buds to flower. Nothing new, that was not already inherent in the bud, came out. So also, in the presence of saints, the hidden joy within you reveals itself. This is not the case with all the people who come near the saint. They alone who are ready can derive benefit when they contact a saint. You are all lotuses.

Devotee: Why do we not remain in that joy for ever?

Papa: Why don't you allow the bud to grow and open out before the sun?

272. Path of renunciation – only for heroes.

Devotee: Is it not a fact that only heroes can walk on the path of renunciation?

Papa: The path is meant only for heroes and not for cowards, as a saint says.

Devotee: How can a man who is stricken with poverty become courageous enough to walk on the path?

Papa: Poverty is a blessing to him on the path. Some voluntarily accept poverty. They reduce themselves to that state, because they can thereby realise God quicker. The badge of all saints and sages is poverty.

Devotee: Poverty makes people bad.

Papa: Wealth makes them worse.

Devotee: Can't poverty be eliminated from the State by a proper Government?

Papa: Government is doing so, levying more taxes on the rich, such as income-tax, estate duty, death duty and so on. Wealth in the country will, in course of time, be equally distributed.

Devotee: Why is Swamiji not advising maharajas to distribute their wealth to the poor?

Papa: The maharajas, whom Ramdas met, have been losing gradually everything they possessed. They have lost their power and position, and get on with the allowance paid by the Central government. Many of them have actually become poor. Ramdas’ business is only to make everybody spiritually rich.

Devotee: How far is man free to act and how does the law of karma affect him?

Papa: Man is responsible for his actions so long as he has the ego-sense in him. As soon as he is free from the ego-sense, God starts acting in him. As long as he thinks he is responsible for his actions, he is in the clutches of karma. He has to move in that vicious circle of good and bad actions and reap the results.

273. Vicarious suffering of saints

Devotee: Swamiji, Sri Ramakrishna suffered from cancer and Sri Ramana from sarcoma. Why should they have suffered like that?

Papa: Sri Ramakrishna was asked this question. He replied that he took over the prarabdhas of those who came to prostrate before him. He took upon himself their diseases and karmic effects and relieved them of their suffering. That is the only reason why they had to suffer. This is called vicarious suffering. This sort of suffering goes on even in regard to ordinary men. Suppose a man is suffering on account of extreme poverty. Another, a rich man, takes pity on him and gives his all to him. Thereby he himself suffers in order to relieve the other from suffering.

Devotee: How is it possible to take the suffering from others?

Papa: Saints know the way. What happens, only they know.

Devotee: Most of us are very anxious to transfer our troubles but there are none to take over.

Papa: It is a very convenient idea. But very often we say we give, but do not give. There must be power on the other side to receive and also power on our side to give.

Devotee: Should we pray to God for material things? Does He not know what He has to give us?

Papa: One devotee prayed like this and Ramdas thinks that it is the best form of prayer. He said, 'O God, I am foolish. You are wise. I ask unwisely for so many things. Kindly do not grant them. Give me what is best in your view. In my foolishness I may ask for things which, if granted, may bring harm to me.

Kunti Devi prayed to Lord Krishna to give her more and more suffering as then only she would remember Him. But what do we do? When difficulties come, we find fault with God. We ask Him, 'I have been so long taking your Name. What is the meaning of your bringing difficulties to me?' And then we stop taking the name altogether. This is not the way the devotees should behave. If they change their attitude, they can turn the very difficulties into help on their path.

There was a devotee who was for thirty years repeating Ram Nam. He lost one of his children. He was overpowered so much by grief that he gave up Ram Nam altogether and started abusing God for having taken away his child, even though he had been His devotee for so many years. He became very restless. Thus he spent some days in grief. His friends advised him to go to Ramdas. He knew that Ramdas would ask him to take to Ram Nam, which he did not want to. Finally he did come to Ramdas. Ramdas told him, 'When your mind is not at rest, the only way to make it calm is to think of God. What will happen to you if you go on like this without taking His name, but abusing Him? God is absolute peace and bliss. To think of Him means to rest in peace. And you are yourself blocking the way to that peace, because your child passed away. Did you bring the child with you when you came into the world? Are you going to take it with you when you depart from this life? Why do you then go mad like this at the loss of it?' Ramdas allowed these thoughts to sink in his mind. In another fifteen minutes he started singing God's name, became cheerful, went back home, reopened his business and spent a happy life thereafter.

274. Sadhuism is no joke

Papa's programmes were tight; they came one after another in quick succession, and devotees were pouring in at all hours of the day, till late in the night. Seeing this, Janakiram remarked: "Papa, to be a Mahatma is no small job. There is no end to our trying his patience. How we bother you!"

Papa: Sadhuism is not a joke. Ramdas does not consider such a life serious. He takes it very light. If he took it serious he would not be what he is.

Before coming to Anantapur, Papa had decided not to visit houses or go to any other nearby village. All the devotees were accordingly informed.

The municipal chairman had been sending his car for Papa's use from the day of Papa's arrival. The previous day, a friend on behalf of the chairman requested Papa to visit his house and wished to know if Papa would kindly make an exception in his case. When the matter came before Papa, he said, "Ramdas cannot make an exception. He has been telling all devotees that he won't go to anybody's house. If he breaks the rule in this case, it will cause great distress to other devotees. Ramdas is not prepared to disappoint hundreds of people just to satisfy one. Please therefore request him to excuse Ramdas."

November 10, 1953

275. Pada-pooja

7 a.m. The municipal chairman came with his family and performed Papa's Pada-pooja at Satyanarayana Rao's house. From 7 to 8.15 a.m. a number of devotees also performed Pada-poojas mostly in the orthodox style. Some of them placed their offerings, in coins, at Papa's feet. Later they were taken and handed over to Papa who put them in the pockets on either side. Consequently the pockets became heavy. After pooja Papa got up and went to the small room where coffee was kept ready for him.

On getting up, feeling his pockets heavy, Papa remarked: "Ramdas is heavy on both sides."

S: Are the sides balancing, Papa?

Papa: They have been made to balance. Now let the money come out. Take Ramdas’ purse and the bag. Ramdas has been going about like John Gilpin who hung two wine bottles, on either side, from his belt!

276. Disrespect to saints

10.30 a.m. A few devotees were sitting with Papa. One of them was working in Kurnool (then capital of Andhra). He was talking to Papa about the new capital and the scorpions that infested the place.

Papa (to the Kurnool devotee): Do you go to see our friend RR there?

Devotee: Yes, he is there. When I knew your programme I went to him to tell him that I was going to see you. I was terribly disappointed. I felt I should not have gone at all to see him.

Papa: What was the matter?

Devotee: He is somehow against saints now. He asked me, 'Why should you go and worship Ramdas? God alone is the one we should worship. These people are all on the way still. I do not like to worship these people. I am not permitting anybody to worship me. I do not like thousands of people following me.’ These were the words I heard from him.

Papa: Oh, has he advanced so much?

Devotee: At last he told me that I should not mention his name to Papa.

S: You may tell him when you meet him next that Papa himself enquired of him.

Papa: We cannot build up a spiritual structure on the foundation of abusing saints. By such abuse we do not do good to ourselves, but we pull ourselves down. Many years ago when RR came to the ashram, he asked Ramdas whether he could continue his legal practice and yet progress on the spiritual path. Ramdas frankly told him, if one had to resort to telling lies in whatever profession he might be, he would not advance on the spiritual path. But RR was of the opinion that without telling lies he could not practise as a lawyer. Ramdas finally told him that whether he practised or not, if he wanted spiritual advancement he must stop telling lies. Ramdas heard that after he had returned to his place, he discontinued his practice as a lawyer and took seriously to spiritual sadhana. He had no children then. But recently we heard that a son was born to him.

S: Did he fall out with any saint? Had he any trouble with saints?

Papa: He had a very bad experience with Swami Nityananda. As soon as he went near him, Nityananda gave him a hard blow on the knee-cap, flinging at him a stone or a coconut and it appears he was in bed for some days on that account. But that may not be the reason for his present attitude.

In the evening at 4.30, Papa visited the Sai Baba High School, where the students were seated in perfect order. Papa sat on a raised and decorated platform. Papa spent about half an hour there, while some girl students sang devotional songs and the correspondent, Sri Adinarayana Rao, made a short speech. Before he started to speak, he requested Papa to address the students but Papa excused himself. From the school, Papa went for his usual evening walk.

277. Serene as usual

Crowds began gathering at the residence of Satyanarayana Rao from 5 p.m. for the bhajan which was to start only at 6.30. By that time there was quite a good crowd in the pandal erected for the bhajan. Later the pandal had overflowed, and the whole compound was full of people and there was also not an inch of space inside the house. The bhajan which was started could not be orderly owing to the indisciplined crowd. To add to the confusion, in the middle of the bhajan, the electric lights went off and all had to sit in the darkness for some time.

In spite of the dense crowd, the disorder and the noise that ensued, and even when the lights were off, Papa was sitting with his usual serenity and smile and was cracking jokes. The electric line was set right and the bhajan resumed but the noise from the crowd continued. So the convener friends requested the devotees assembled there to prostrate before Papa and leave the place. It took more than fortyfive minutes for all of them to prostrate and disperse.

When the lights went off, Mataji was in her room and a large number of women were crowding around her. Many had their children with them, who began to cry. Not caring for the children, the women were only anxious to prostrate before Mataji. Seeing the situation, Mataji went out of the room to the veranda and stood there so as to avoid congestion.

The whole programme was over by 9 p.m. Papa had been sitting for two hours and a half at a stretch. When Papa came to his room, S asked him how he managed to sit so long.

Papa: Ramdas had to.

Venkatesan: Tomorrow we cannot have this privilege.

Papa: If Ramdas sits for such long programmes, his body will be shattered. If you cannot have the privilege tomorrow, Bangalore people will have it. If, due to overstrain, Ramdas takes ill, nobody will have the privilege. What a rush it was!

Papa wanted to rest. As he was having a touch of cold, KR Rama Rao was sent for to get some homeopathic remedies.

En route from Anantapur to Bangalore, November 11, 1953

278. "Is Ramdas a rock?"

Satynarayana Rao's house. Papa was to leave Anantapur for Bangalore. From early morning devotees were pouring in for darshan. The party was ready to start at 10 o'clock. Everybody present was sad at heart at Papa's impending departure. As the time was nearing, the pressure of grief in their hearts seemed to increase. Their eyes were filled with tears and words could not find their way out of their choked throats.

Papa: Ramdas also feels like weeping when he sees you all so much moved.

Rama Rao: Is Papa also moved?

Papa: Why should he not be moved? Is he a rock? You people are capable of even melting rocks.

News came that the train would arrive later by an hour.

Papa then told the devotees: "Now you can sit at ease. We are here for an hour more."

All the same the inevitable hour of leave-taking came and Papa left the house at 11.15 a.m. The train left Anantapur a few minutes before 12 noon.

As there were already three passengers in the compartment, Papa did not have enough space for his afternoon rest.

S: Papa can sleep on the lower berth. I shall request that gentleman to occupy the other seat and make space for Papa.

Papa: No, Ramdas may not sleep. Let that friend sit where he is.

Mataji: Why not on the upper berth, Papa?

S: Papa may find it difficult to climb up.

Papa: No. Ramdas won't mind it. He can climb up.

Then S spread Papa's bed on the upper berth and Papa climbed up, not without difficulty, and sat on his bed. With a triumphant smile he said, "See how Ramdas managed to climb up!"

279. Crowds en route

He had hardly slept fifteen minutes when the train reached Dharmavaram station. Papa was not known to many in Dharmavaram. But the news of his visit to Anantapur, stay there for over a week and the planned departure on the 11th, had spread in all parts of the district. So a huge crowd was waiting at the platform. Within a minute after the train had stopped, Papa woke up and descended to the platform.

As a large number of women were sitting in an orderly manner on an adjacent platform, Papa was taken through the crowd to that platform. The moment Papa took his seat on a chair there, the orderly crowd became restive. At first the women rushed forward to prostrate before Papa, while the men were standing on one side. Many old women and children fell down and were trampled upon by others. This scene went on for five to ten minutes. Now the men also began to rush forward for pranam as they thought the train was about to start. They pushed the women away. Soon the station master led Papa to the compartment and in another minute the train whistled off.

While Papa was on the platform, Mataji remained in the train and a crowd of women-devotees gathered around her. When she was engaged with them, a monkey came from behind and took away some packets from a handbag that was kept on the seat. Timely intervention by the fellow-passengers prevented the monkey from getting away with the things. They were dropped outside, and later recovered. Mataji was anxious about Papa's dentures, which were in the bag. On examination they were found intact at the bottom of the bag.

The next scene was at Penukonda. The platform was nearly full of devotees headed by Janakiram. They were all waiting for Papa's darshan. Janakiram requested Papa and Mataji to get down and occupy the chairs kept for them in the centre of a large group of people, male and female, all sitting in regular order. Papa and Mataji took their seat and the next minute confusion followed. In their rush to make pranam they pushed the weaker ones aside and trampled upon those who fell down. Papa watched the scene for a minute. He could not suffer to see children and old women being stepped upon by sturdy young men and grown-up school-boys. He got up from the seat, asked Mataji to follow, and literally fought his way through the crowd back to the compartment. When they both got back safely, Janakiram also followed them.

Papa (to Janakiram): Your crowd is uncontrollable. You made a mistake in asking us to get down when you could not control the crowd.

Janakiram: Papa, they do not obey me. They are carried away by emotion and nothing could stop them.

None was allowed inside the compartment for some time. Later they started pushing their way in. The compartment was full and there was many a skirmish at the doorstep. By this time the hits and knocks received from the bowing heads of devotees had begun to give pain to Papa's feet, especially the toes with in-growing nails, Papa then sat up on the seat with crossed legs in such a way that the feet were not exposed. But the women-devotees who were crowding the compartment caught hold of Papa's feet from either side, pulled them out and placed their heads on them. Papa, however, submitted and kept the feet out as long as they wanted, without any further resistance; but he desired that no more persons should be permitted inside the compartment after those that came in had cleared out. Mataji stood at the entrance and hundreds of devotees placed their heads on her feet – in a manner far from orderly or peaceful. When this was going on, Papa, who was quietly watching the game from behind, remarked: "These people will break Mataji's feet. They have done enough with Ramdas." A few minutes before the train left, Mataji kindly requested Papa to come near the door and shower his gracious glance on the crowd. Papa did so and received some more knocks on his toes. Everything was calm when the train gained speed leaving thousands of devotees on the platform to find their way back home. Papa took his seat with so much joy as if he had just escaped from a severe storm. He could enjoy this well-earned rest only for about an hour as Hindupur was nearing. The experience at Penukonda made Papa decide not get out of the compartment at Hindupur.

At Hindupur station, as soon as the door of the compartment was opened, Papa and Mataji stood at the entrance facing the disorderly crowd, and refused to get down. The devotees began to prostrate and offer fruits and garlands to them. As soon as a garland was put, Papa took it out and threw it in the air and there were hundreds of hands raised to catch it. The fruits were also distributed at random then and there. After standing at the door for about ten minutes, Papa got back to his seat, and a few from the crowd entered the compartment. One young man, overpowered by emotion, came running to Papa with his mouth fully opened and bent down as if he was going to devour his feet. By the will of the all-merciful Ram, he just left Papa's feet safe after licking them to his heart's content.

Nanjunda Sastri of Manepalli, who was with Papa at Anantapur and who followed him to this station, was of immense help in protecting Papa from the huge and unruly crowd of devotees. He always stood at Papa's side. While writing about Sastri, his great love for Papa as well as his devoted service need special mention.

Sastri had his own unique way of doing things. One thing made Mataji laugh daily and it became a standing joke. When the singing of Ram Nam in chorus was going on by a large number of devotees and it was found necessary to stop it for some reason or other, he would shout 'o-o-o-o-M,' and this always served as a brake. Whenever Mataji heard him saying 'o-o-o-o-M,' she used to roar with laughter; and later, even in the absence of Mataji, all others would laugh remembering Mataji's reaction to it.

It was getting dark and the train was nearing Bangalore. Though it started nearly an hour late, it had made up the time and it was expected that the train would arrive at Bangalore only about thirty minutes late. Gajendra was waiting at Yeshwantpur, a station prior to Bangalore and he joined the party. In the course of his random talk he made mention of PS Gopal Rao.

Gajendra (to Papa): After you had left Bangalore last week, Gopal Rao went to Conjeevaram to have darshan of Sri Sankaracharaya. Papa, wherever he goes he is after relics. From Udupi he even took a wooden plank used by Madhvacharya. Now he is trying his best to see that Papa visits Madras. He has asked me to persuade Papa somehow to decide in favour of the visit. I, of course, replied, 'Whatever Papa decides is final. He cannot be persuaded to change his plans'.

Papa: You are Gajendra. If you get yourself caught by a crocodile in the Bay of Bengal and cry for help, Ramdas will come there.

Gajendra: There are no crocodoiles in the Bay of Bengal.

Papa: There are other equally ferocious and dangerous marine animals.

Gajendra: Oh! Gopal Rao, when he knows this, will himself act as the crocodile so that Papa may come to Madras.

S: Let him not forget the fate that overtook the crocodile.

Papa: It was cut into pieces but it also got moksha, as Gajendra did. But Ramdas wants them to get moksha while living in the body. Moksha after the body drops is a different thing.