← The Gospel of Swami RamdasHis talks, as recorded by Swami Satchidananda

1955-12-31

Chapter 45

Anandashram to Bombay, December 31, 1955

480. Vedanta sammelan

Papa, Mataji, S and DM Pathak (the masseur) left Anandashram early in the morning and reached Mangalore at 10 by train. The party went to Lakshmibagh, the residence of Srimati Lakshmi Devi Shama Rao. Shama Rao was an ardent devotee of Papa and had been in touch with him for many years. It seemed he was very anxious to attend the Silver Jubilee Celebration of Mataji's renunciation held in the ashram on 29th November, but could not do so owing to ill-health. He had requested Papa through his wife that Papa should stay as usual at their house for some time on his way to Bombay on 31 December. Papa had agreed. But Shama Rao passed away on 23 December. His wife desired that Papa should not for that reason change his programme of coming to their house.

So Papa and party spent a few hours at Lakshmibagh and had their lunch. In spite of the fact it was a period of mourning, many devotees had gathered there and all felt blessed by Papa's presence. The party left for the aerodrome at 1 p.m. and reached Bombay at 6.45 p.m. and drove to 'Shreyas', the residence of Natverlal G Parikh.

'Shreyas', Bombay, January 1, 1956

6.30 a.m. Natverlal, who was sitting near Papa remarked: "This is New Year's Day."

Papa: What special significance has the New Year's Day? When we are living in eternity we have no count of time!

Many devotees came to have Papa's darshan and they stayed on till 11 o'clock. In the afternoon, Harkishanlal and Maganlal Dresswala came with some printed invitations. They handed over one to Papa. It was about the Vedanta Sammelan to be held in Bombay under the presidentship of Sri Prempuri Maharaj, in the last week of January. They both requested Papa to make it convenient to attend the sammelan, if only for a day; he might come to Bombay for that purpose by plane from Bhavnagar and return the next day.

Papa, with folded hands, told the friends that he was not prompted by Ram to comply with their request to attend the sammelan and might be excused. He added: "Ramdas is not a big swami to attend conferences and address meetings. He is only a humble child of God. What right has Ramdas to sit in the company of great swamis? Ramdas is not a swami. Somehow the word 'swami' is prefixed to his name. If he is to be a swami he should have ochre clothes. Ramdas does not wear ochre clothes. Sannyasins, by virtue of their being sannyasins, and also of their great learning, have a right to preside over or conduct such conferences. But Ramdas’ case is different. Moreover he is not inspired by Ram to attend the sammelan."

Harkishanlal: Are we not also prompted by Ram to invite you for the sammelan? We are sure we are not doing it on our own. Our prompting is from Ram.

Papa: That may be. But it is all His lila. He does so many things from outside. He prompts Ramdas to do the right thing from within. From outside He may say, 'Yes', but if He does not agree from within, Ramdas cannot do anything except to follow the inner prompting.

Another devotee: You even refused to take the rotis offered by your Gurudev so lovingly. When questioned by the people, you said that though the Guru commanded you from outside to eat the rotis, the Guru from within prompted you not to eat them and so you had no option other than to refuse the rotis.

Papa: Yes, so you remember that incident.

Harkishanlal: We shall then ask Mataji and see what she says. If she agrees, perhaps you will have no objection as you say you are a child.

Papa: Go and talk to Mataji about it. Let us see what she says.

They then went and told Mataji about the sammelan and their wish that Papa should attend it at least one day. Mataji emphatically refused, saying that such sammelans representing only a particular aspect, sect or circle were not meant for Papa, as he had broken all limitations and gone beyond. The friends insisted again and again, but got from her only the emphatic reply, 'no'. They came back to Papa and explained what they heard from Mataji. They further pleaded that Papa should not give any excuse, but must agree to attend the sammelan at least one day, as they thought that otherwise the sammelan would be so little to the purpose. He could come and attend the conference one evening and, if necessary, return next morning. They further prayed that Papa should not disappoint them.

On hearing their insistent appeal, Papa seemed somewhat moved in favour of attending the function. Taking advantage of this, Harkishanlal asked Papa: "Swamiji, what would be the most suitable day for you?"

Papa: How can you fix up a day when nothing has been decided? Mataji is quite against Ramdas attending it and so what can he do? He is only a child obeying the commands of the mother.

Harkishanlal: But, Swamiji, if a child is very obstinate the mother yields. So also if you are obstinate, our mother will agree to your attending the sammelan.

Papa (after a heartly laugh): No, this mother does not yield.

Now Mataji was seen standing near the door leading to the hall from Papa's bedroom. Taking this opportunity, Harkishanlal asked Mataji once again if she would not agree to Papa's attending the sammelan. She replied in the negative with an emphatic shake of the head.

Harkishanlal: If you do not agree here, I may have to come to Bhavnagar ashram for this purpose again.

Mataji: Yes, come by all means. That ashram has been built only for you all. Do come.

Harkishanlal: If I come there I will not return empty-handed.

Mataji: You can fill your hands and return.

Harkishanlal thought it was no use arguing further with Mataji and gave up his case as lost. With great disappointment the friends left after some time.

After they had left, Natverlal Parikh asked Papa why he was so firm in his refusal.

Papa: Ramdas is after all a child. How can he sit with the big swamis in the sammelan? That is why Ram prevents him from giving his consent to the proposal.

Natverlal: But if your attending the conference would be of utility to the public, why should Ram not permit you to attend?

Papa: Whether it will be of utility or futility, Ram knows. If it will be of any utility, Ramdas believes that Ram would permit him. But as He does not do so, Ramdas has to take it that it will be only futility. (Laughter)

481. Papa in a jovial mood

5 p.m. Papa and Mataji went to Matunga to attend the wedding of Radhe (daughter of Chandrasekhar B Trikannad and Ramabai CT) with Gurudath Rao Nileshwar. After the ceremony they went to the residence of Chandrasekhar to see Papa's sister, Lakshmi Devi, who was then very old and weak.

It was 7.45 p.m. when they returned to 'Shreyas'. A few devotees were waiting for them. In the course of the conversation Papa read out to them some pages at random from the new book, ‘World is God’.

When it was 9.30 p.m. Mataji came to the hall where Papa was sitting. That was the sign that the time was up for Papa to retire. Papa got up immediately. He had to retire early in order to be massaged by Pathak for an hour before sleep. All the devotees except Natverlal and his family left the place. Papa went to the bedroom accompanied by Natverlal, his wife, sons and daughters. That was the time when Papa cracked jokes.

The new massage started by Pathak had caused disappointment to all those friends, as otherwise they would sit near Papa and massage him, all the while laughing with Papa over Papa's wit and humour. But they were not to talk at all when Papa was being massaged. So Papa told them that the massage was different as it was without any witty talk. This caused laughter and Papa himself joined in it.

Then S went to Papa with a glass of salt water and basin for gargle. Papa took the glass in his hand and was about to take a sip when he again started laughing. S took the glass back and waited. Papa then said: "It is well Ramdas waits for sometime before he gargles. Otherwise he will spit out the whole water on you all."

Natverlal: S will be the first one to get it.

Papa: Yes, he will have a fine shower-bath.

Again all laughed. S suggested that it would be better if all kept quiet for some time as Papa would otherwise keep on laughing and not be able to gargle. All kept silent. The gargle was over.

S: Sometimes even if others keep quiet, Papa himself thinks of the jokes and laughs.

Arvind: Papa, this evening we were watching the sunset from here. Just when the sun sank into the sea, S remarked that it was like Papa leaving a house.

Papa: He has started talking in poetic language. (All laugh)

Natverlal: He must have got it by long contact with Papa, is it not?

Papa: Ramdas is not a poet.

Natverlal: Still Papa is writing poems.

Papa: Ram is writing.

S: Then Ram is the poet.

Papa: Ram is everything. Why should he not be a poet also?

Now Papa was sitting on the cot. The masseur was by his side, and the others were standing in front of him.

Papa: What next?

Arvind: Is this not a polite way of saying that we should all go out?

Papa laughed and folded both his hands as if doing namaskar.

Arvind: This is like saying good night.

All laughed, made pranams to Papa, and left the room. The main light was switched off and the masseur started the massage.

Bombay, January 2, 1956

482. Saint – recognition difficult

There were a few devotees sitting near Papa. One of them asked, "How to recognise a saint?"

Papa: To recognise a saint is very difficult. They say a saint alone can recognise another saint. But Ramdas would say that it is sometimes difficult even for a saint to say whether another person is a real saint or not. The reason is this. A saint is one who has realised God, who sees God everywhere. Then how can he say that one man is a saint and another is not?

Devotee: But a saint can say whether God is playing the part of genuine saint or a bogus saint. God is playing different parts.

Papa: Outwardly he may play any part. The saint looks only within and there he sees God alone.

Devotee: So what are we to do when we cannot decide whether one is a saint or not?

Papa: You can make pranams from a distance. Don't approach too near. If you do so....

Natverlal: ........ you will be burnt.

Papa: You can look upon all as the manifestations of God and make pranams to them. You cannot decide whether they have realised God or not. You need not sit in judgment on saints. There are many saints about whom people talk all sorts of things. At the same time we find there are many who are very much devoted to those saints. Now who is right and who is wrong? There was a famous saint. He lived in America for many years and had a large following both in America and Europe. Ramdas heard unfavourable reports about him from some people. He also saw many of his devotees imbued with spiritual fervour. Surely they had benefited very much from his contact. Recently Ramdas had a letter from an Englishman saying that he was a disciple of that saint from whose contact he was greatly benefited. For some months he was greatly perturbed because he heard not too savoury reports about his Guru from a man who is very well known to Ramdas and who is on the Vedantic path for thirty years. Ramdas wrote back saying that he should not be worried about the opinion of others. His faith should be firm in spite of all criticism levelled against his Guru. Ramdas also said that the saint was a God-man. That will help him to recover his faith.

483. Some fun

The devotees of Bombay were anxious to see the film of Papa's world tour. As the hall at 'Shreyas' was not large enough to accommodate the number of devotees who might turn up, Surya Prakash arranged with Harkishanlal to have the show in the big hall at Prem Kutir. The show started at seven. The hall was full to overflowing. Papa sat on the raised dais with Sri Swami Prempuri Maharaj and Swami Nirmal Sant. Prempuri Maharaj was staying in one of the flats in Prem Kutir and Nirmal Sant, who had come recently, was giving discourses daily at Prem Kutir.

After the show, Harkishanlal, the owner of the building, requested Papa kindly to visit his flat and bless his old father who was ill. Papa went with him and spent a few minutes with the patient.

When Papa returned to 'Shreyas' it was past ten. Many devotees were waiting for him. They were listening to the talks of Papa on a recorder. When Papa entered, the machine was stopped. Papa had talks with the devotees for an hour. He then adjourned to the bedroom.

Mataji, Lingappa and S were busy packing things. Papa was to have the usual massage. So it would take some time for him to sleep. He asked Mataji why he should not retire then. Mataji told him that he might retire soon but that the massage should not be cancelled under any circumstance. Natverlal's family was seated in front of Papa. Papa kept on talking to them, cracking jokes and making them laugh. In the meantime Mataji was busy packing as they had to leave for Bhavnagar the following day.

Natverlal's wife suddenly remembered something, got up and went to Mataji to inform her of it. Her daughter and daughter-in-law followed her. When Papa found his audience thinning out, he burst into laughter saying: "When Mataji is here all go to her, asking if they should do this or do that and what not, and Ramdas is left alone. Nobody cares to sit with him when she is there. Ramdas simply watches the fun."

There were peals of laughter. Hearing that remark and the laughter, Mataji came in laughing and said that actually there was nobody working with her except S and Lingappa, and Chandrakalaben came only to remind her of something. Papa just laughed.