← The Gospel of Swami RamdasHis talks, as recorded by Swami Satchidananda

1953-11-01

Chapter 28

Bangalore, November 1, 1953

236. Papa honouring Mahatmas

The train arrived in Bangalore an hour late, at 8 a.m. At the Cantonment Station there were many devotees waiting. Papa was happy to meet PSG Rao and Hanumantha Rao who had come from Madras for his darshan.

Sarangapani Mudaliar and others garlanded Papa and Mataji. They were taken to his residence at 19, Race Course Road and were received by Mrs Mudaliar and her daughters, who performed arati to them. Sadhu Murugadas was waiting in the hall adjacent to the veranda, and so soon as Papa and Mataji entered the hall, he prostrated before them and ran up to join the bhajan that was already going on upstairs.

After a wash and breakfast, Papa sat for the bhajan. The bhajan came to a close at 9.30 a.m. but the devotees did not disperse till late in the afternoon. Sarangapani gave a feast to all of them on the auspicious occasion of Papa's visit to his house.

Sri Swami Hariharananda Bharati of Sri Ananta Swami Math, Bangalore used to like Papa's company very much; Papa also liked his company. Papa enquired about the Swami and wanted to go and meet him that afternoon. Papa also heard that Sri Swami Anandashram of Sri Chitrapur Math, Shirali, was in Bangalore. Papa always liked to avail himself of every opportunity to have his darshan.

After midday rest, Papa was told that Sri Swami Hariharananda had come. Papa went from his room to the hall and seated the Swamiji by his side on the chair provided. A few minutes later they were called in to take fruits. They sat together and had fruits at the same table, and then returned to the hall. A number of devotees were sitting on the floor. When it was about 3 p.m. Swamiji wanted to leave. Sri Dasappa, Minister of Finance, Mysore State, was also sitting just in front of the saint. When the Swamiji was about to get up, the whole gathering stood up.

Swami Hariharananda (pointing to Dasappa): These people have caught us. There is no escape from them.

Dasappa: Swamiji, why do you say like this? You are all mahatmas and we are all grihastas. Why do you say that you have no escape from us?

Swami Hariharananda: But, I mean only about the body. As atman we are free always. This vyavahar is concerning the body only.

Papa (to Swamiji): Swamiji, why do you say like that? Why not say that he (Dasappa) being Ram Himself you are right in saying that you are under his protection? When everything is Ram we are all, of course, under His protection.

Swami Hariharananda: Yes. If I make any mistake you are bound to correct me. If we have the blessings of mahatmas and the touch of their holy feet, everything is possible.

So saying, he touched Papa's feet. Papa also got up and touched Swamiji's feet saying, "The feet of mahatmas are like these."

Papa and party started at 3.30 p.m. Sarangapani Mudaliar had been asked to keep some garlands, fruits and sweets ready. They first went to the Bowring Hospital, to see Sarangapani Mudaliar's second son Ranganathan, who had developed some serious illness the previous night and was admitted in the hospital. Getting down from the car near the ward, Papa, Mataji, Sarangapani, his wife, and S went inside the ward where Ranganathan was being saline-fed intravenously. After enquiring how he was feeling and so on, Papa said, "You will be all right by the time we return from Anantapur."

From the hospital they drove to the residence of Sri Swami Anandashram. Anandashram Swamiji was the spiritual head of the Saraswat Community. His Math was at Shirali, North Kanara. The Swamiji had a little earlier got the present house in Bangalore also for the Math so that he could spend the summer there. He was sitting on a sofa in a fairly big room adjacent to the veranda. There was another sofa on one side, facing Swamiji's right. Papa entered the room with a garland. He garlanded the great saint and prostrated before him, his head touching Swamiji's feet. When Papa got up, Swamiji asked him to take his seat on the chair provided. Mataji prostrated before the saint, touching his feet, and took her seat a few yards in front of him.

Papa and Swamiji talked for a while about each other's tour, as Swamiji was also on a tour to the North.

Swamiji then requested Papa to have some milk or fruit, but Papa excused himself saying that he could not take anything at that time.

It was time to depart. Papa got up and prostrated.

Papa: S wishes to photograph you. He has got a cine-camera with him. Would you mind coming outside a short while, as it is too dark in this room?

Swamiji consented, got up, changed his upper cloth, and came out with Papa, and the large group followed. S filmed the whole party. Then Papa and those who came with him left.

Evening bhajan at Sarangapani Mudaliar's house was well attended. Most of the devotees dispersed by 9.30 p.m. A few were sitting with Papa in the room.

Papa: Ramdas must sleep early tonight. Mataji also had no rest during the day, so it is better you all retire now.

November 2, 1953

237. Samsara breeds sorrow

7 a.m. Sarangapani Mudaliar's house. Bhajan was to start at 7.15. Papa was in his room and a few others were with him.

Papa (to C Ramachandra Rao): Why is Bhavanishankar Rao not to be seen at all? Does he know that we are here?

CR Rao: He was not here for a long time. I am not sure if he has come back.

S: He met Papa in Bombay last year.

Papa: Yes, he lost his son a few months back and he and his wife were terribly grieved. A mother's sorrow on account of the death of any of her grown-up children is simply unbearable. Bhavanishankar Rao was attached to Ramdas for many years but now he has got so much entangled in his family matters that he hardly finds time for bhajan or to think of God.

S: Papa, was he married when he accompanied Papa to the Himalayas?

Papa: He was married at that time and a great tussle was going on between him on one side and his relatives on the other.

S: So, their will prevailed!

Papa: No. Later they also gradually changed and were coming to see Ramdas…. The devotees advise those who are in trouble that the world is after all transitory; nothing is permanent here; attachment to these perishable objects is the cause of all sorrow; God alone is our refuge and so on. But if they themselves lose some of their close relations, they are very much affected; even more than those to whom they have taught the transitory nature of things. Ramdas has seen many cases like this.

S: If asked why they are so much affected despite all their knowledge, what do they reply?

Papa: They keep quiet. If at all they reply they say, ‘My wife is terribly affected on account of the death and when I see her in that condition I feel for her. But for her, I may not have been affected.' Thus the whole blame is put on the wife. It is to a great extent true. Men, when they are left alone, can control themselves. But women cannot. Seeing women in such a miserable plight, and thus often reminded of the past calamity, men also grieve.

238. "He talked of nothing but God."

7.15 a.m. Papa went for the bhajan. In the room only S and Mataji remained. S was writing his diary and Mataji was attending to various matters – washing, arranging things, and so on.

S (to Mataji): However much I write this, I feel I have still more to write.

Mataji: If you say so now, how much you could have recorded if you were with Papa some years back! In those days, he talked about nothing but God. When I met him he was like that. That was why he could open his whole mind to me. Otherwise how could I have attained Him so soon? Now he has hundred and one things to attend to. If it were in these days, I would not have gained so much.

S: So, from what you say, Papa's so-called service is a disservice to real aspirants. Can it be so?

Mataji: Not so. Papa did not start these activities for a long time, but he found that those who joined him for sadhana could not devote themselves whole time to sadhana. So it was considered advisable to take up some activity so that they could partly devote their time to work and the rest to devotional practices. Otherwise Papa would not have started all these institutions.

Some mothers came in to see Mataji and prostrated before her. So she turned her attention towards them for some time, and then asked them to go bhajan-hall.

239. One Guru, several forms

Mataji again came near S and asked, "Do you know what I told M, before we went to see Anandashram Swamiji?"

S: I only know that you asked PSG Rao also to accompany us and sent Gajendra to get some fruits and flowers.

Mataji: Is that all?

S: I do not know anything more.

Mataji: Of course, I told Rao that he might come with us to see the Swamiji. So he sent for some flowers and fruits. I also suggested that he might offer some money to the Swamiji because that would do him good. He asked me how much he should offer. I left it to him to decide as he thought fit.

I had told M also to get some sweets, fruits and garlands. I suggested that he might also offer some money to the Swamiji. He asked me how much he should offer. But I left it to him. He again asked how much he should pay, fifty rupees or a hundred rupees. I made it clear that it was left to him. Then he replied, 'I have only one Guru.' I quietly told him: You are right in saying that you have only one Guru. But that very Guru himself is coming in various forms. First you must be able to see your Guru in saints and then in all beings and creatures. You are not asked to serve and worship only Anandashram Swamiji, but all saints and all beings. That is your goal.

We are not always to remain with the narrow vision that our Guru is only in one form. See how Papa himself is showing to us how we should pay due respects to other saints. He prostrates before them. Why is he doing it? Has he to gain anything more? It is for us to see and learn.

He was, of course, convinced.

240. Papa blessing a mental patient

Papa started at 3.30 p.m. for some visits. First he went to the Anathalaya conducted by the manager of the Ashakta Poshaka Sabha. The Secretary of the sabha received Papa and party and took them round the new buildings that were getting ready to house the orphans. Mataji was happy to see the arrangements made to look after the orphans and enquired of the Secretary if she could send some orphans, to which the Secretary readily agreed.

The next visit was to a hospital to see a woman, a mental patient, She was lying on bed, hands and legs tied, and talking at random. Papa and Mataji stood before her and when she was told by her relatives that Swami Ramdas had come, she gazed intently. She expressed in Telugu that she could not make pranams to Papa as her hands were tied. Papa told her that it was enough if she mentally prostrated. She, however, requested Papa to place his foot on her head which he did, sitting on a chair near her. Just after this, she closed her eyes for some time and talked to herself: "Oh Narayana, how gracious you are to have brought this saint here to bless me!' But the next minute she changed and started behaving abnormally, biting her rug. Papa blessed her and assured her husband that she would we well soon. It was told later that this woman and a dream some days earlier in which she saw Papa whom she had not met before. From that time she had been worrying her husband to take her to Papa. After getting into the car, Mataji said, "Papa, how bold you were to sit near her and place your foot on her head. I was afraid she might bite your foot."

Papa: Ramdas did not think of it. It seems somebody who was mad was brought to Ramana Maharshi. He was asked to place his head at Maharshi's feet. But the fellow bit Maharshi's toe. After that nobody was permitted to touch his feet.

241. Only cheerful offerings benefit

At his house, Sarangapani Mudaliar enquired of Mataji about the construction work of the new kitchen, the entire cost of which he had agreed to bear.

Sarangapani Mudaliar: How is the construction work going on, Mataji?

Mataji: The walls have been raised and the roofing work will be started soon. We have still five hundred rupees out of the amount you had sent on that account. It is only in the account. We have used up the money for food.

Sarangapani Mudaliar: If money is wanted I shall send, Mataji.

Mataji: It is all right. We shall write to you when we have spent the balance amount also. Otherwise you might get tired of sending money. I do not want anybody to feel that way. Money is after all money, you see. It is hard to part with it. Unless one cheerfully gives it, one cannot have the benefit of giving. That is why we have stopped even taking loans from anybody. We noticed that those persons, from whom we took loans, had been disturbed in mind on that account and their attitude towards us also changed. So, why should we give room for anybody's downfall? Now we are trying to manage without raising loans from devotees.

En route from Bangalore to Anantapur, November 3, 1953

242. Mataji's rules of cleanliness

While on travel, Mataji generally kept for Papa a spare set of dress and an additional towel, so that if at any time change was necessary it could be made without delay. That morning, just after the train left Bangalore, Papa got up from his seat to go to the water-closet, and his towel fell on the floor. Mataji took it, folded and kept it in a handbag, and replaced it with another. In another hour, when Papa got up from his seat, that towel too fell on the floor. Mataji again took it, put it in the bag, and gave him another of a smaller size, which she had kept for her use, as that was then at hand and as Papa's towels were in the suitcase. Every time a new towel was given, Papa was asking Mataji, "Why should Ramdas change the towel? It just touched the ground and you have kept it aside. What is the harm in using the same thing?"

After a time the third towel also fell on the ground. Mataji did not notice it as she was facing the opposite side. S laughed and was about to tell Mataji.

Papa (laughing): Don't tell her, don't tell her.

Mataji turned towards Papa and asked what the matter was. S had to say then that Papa's towel had fallen again and that he had picked it up himself. Mataji took that towel from Papa and gave him a small handkerchief. Papa put it in his pocket.

S: Papa, perhaps this is the punishment for dropping all the towels. You are now to manage with a kerchief.

Papa: This is better. Ramdas can put it in the pocket and it won't fall down.

S: That is the consolation.

Mataji: This will do. Why should Papa have that long one? He has to put it round the neck or hold it. This small thing he can put in his pocket.

Papa: When everything happens for good, is this also not for good?

Mataji: From next time I shall keep four towels outside instead of two.

S: Papa, Mataji has very much relaxed the rigid rules of cleanliness.

Papa: Is it so?

Mataji: If you all do not take to my path, I must take to your path. I find that you only go your own way. I am trying to give up mine and follow yours.

The train reached Anantapur at 4.30 p.m. Satyanarayana Rao, Venkatesan, Ramachandra Rao, Rama Rao, Nagesh Rao and a few others received Papa at the platform and took the party to the residence of Satyanarayana Rao in Sarojini Street Extension.

Anantapur, November 4, 1953

243. Atharvana Veda

7.30 a.m. Satyanarayana Rao's house. Papa was sitting on a sofa in the room set apart for him. A few devotees were sitting in front on the floor. Satyanarayana Rao introduced a new arrival, saying, "Papa, this friend wants to talk to Papa about the great work he has been doing."

Papa: Come on. Sit down. What have you got to say?

New friend: I have translated the Atharvana Veda into Telugu. I want to publish and popularise it as far as possible.

Papa: Why do you have a special preference for Atharvana Veda?

Friend: The Vedas are inspired writing of sages and they are being ignored nowadays.

Papa: Why do you take up Atharvana Veda only? In fact we are advised not to study Atharvana Veda because it deals with various powers, how to attain them and so on and so forth.

Janakiram: Papa, it deals with science of the advanced type, engineering and so on. This friend says that there are ways and means mentioned therein to counteract the effect of atom bomb and other latest weapons.

Friend: Swamiji, I request you to give me an hour or so to talk to the audience in your presence about this Veda.

Papa: Ramdas cannot follow your language, Telugu. He can understand only if you speak in English.

Friend: I am not well up in English but shall however try. Most of the audience will not understand English.

Papa: So you do not mind even if Ramdas does not know what you talk.

Friend: I do mind.

A devotee: Has Papa anything more to know?

Papa: Don't know. He knows Ram Nam. That is all.

Janakiram: Papa, let him speak in English.

Papa: All right. So we are going to hear something about developing supernatural powers. In fact, we must know that however great the powers one may attain, they are all purely in the material plane. They have no entry into the spiritual realm. One may be able to show a lot of tricks like stopping a running train, taking different things from the air and so on and so forth, and still remain a spiritual bankrupt.

The friend then spoke for some time on Atharvana Veda.

244. Swami Rama Tirtha

In the afternoon at 2 o'clock, Papa was present in the hall. The time for questions and answers was from 2.10 to 3.30. Seeing mostly lawyers sitting in the hall, Papa remarked: "Most of you are lawyers sitting to hear Ramdas. Lawyers are not an inspiring audience. But they can be inspired."

Venkatesan: Papa, in the latest publication of the Rama Tirtha Publishing League, your letter to them has been published as a foreword. It is a very nice appreciation of Rama Tirtha. Papa has quoted Rama Tirtha's utterance, 'I am God, so are you'.

Papa: Oh, they have published that letter itself! Yes, Ramdas remembers always those words of Rama Tirtha, and also what he said once to an American audience. Once he was delivering a speech to a large gathering and was referring to God as He, She and sometimes as It. This perplexed one friend who got up and asked, "Swamiji, you are referring to God as He, She and It. Can you tell me whether God is Mr, Mrs or Miss?' To this Rama Tirtha replied, 'God is neither Mr nor Mrs nor Miss, but a mystery.

“He was a great sannyasi. Ramdas is only a child before such sannyasis. Ramdas has the highest regard for them. What do you think Ramdas is? He is not a sannyasi, because the name Ramdas does not fit in for a sannyasi. He is not a bhakta, nor a yogi, nor a bhogi."

One devotee: He is Ram.

245. Name and dress

Papa: Long ago when Ramdas was in Junagadh (he wore ochre clothes in those days), he asked somebody spontaneously where the Ram Mandir was. He found himself later in a Ram Mandir. Sannyasis do not go there. But the mahant somehow liked Ramdas very much. He asked Ramdas, 'What is your name?' Ramdas replied, 'Ramdas'.

Mahant: Ha, what is this? Your name and ochre clothes do not go together. You must either put on white clothes and stay here or change your name into Ramagiri or Ramapuri or something like that and go away from here.

Papa continued: "Ramdas humbly told him that the name and cloth were given to him by Ram and he was not prepared to change either till Ram commanded him to do so. Ramdas then left the place. In a few minutes Ramdas found a sannyasi who took him to the Sannyas Ashram. Ramdas stayed there for about fifteen days. That Mahant also liked Ramdas. It was the custom in that ashram to distribute the cash collections received from devotees to all the sannyasis present there. Some one brought to Ramdas his share and asked his name for entering in the register. All those fifteen days they had not known his name. When Ramdas mentioned his name, they were shocked. The Mahant said, "How did you manage to stay here? This is meant only for sannyasis. You say your name is Ramdas. How does it fit your robes? You must change your name."

Ramdas gave him the same reply as he did to the Mahant of Ram Mandir. The Mahant then suggested that the money might be shown in their books as given to a sannyasi, without mentioning any name. But Ramdas told the Mahant that he did not need any money. This was another surprise to them as all others were so eager to have the money.

246. Papa free of spiritual disciplines

So, "Swami' and 'Ramdas' together do not sound well. Ramdas never wanted to be called a swami. Now his gerrua cloth is gone, but 'swami' remains. The word 'swami' fits well with the names 'Sivananda', 'Vivekananda' and so on, but not with 'Ramdas.' Ramdas has travelled all over India and has met many saints. But he has not found any now living, who has not been bound to some sadhana or other and is entirely free from all spiritual discipline. Ramdas is moving about like a free child without any sort of sadhana or discipline. Looking at him (with the usual white clothes on) one might think he has no devotion for God. Ramdas does not meditate or pray. How can one say he has faith in God?

Papa (to one devotee): You have been taking God's name all these years. Don't you feel that you are advancing on the path and that it will take you to the goal?

Devotee: I do feel much better than before, but there are periods of great mental depression and then I do not know where I stand.

Papa: If you had not found the taste of Ram Nam you would have left it long ago. Regarding the moments of depression, it is your own fault. When you take Ram Nam in full swing, you are elated and feel happy. But when you become slack in your sadhana, you get worried and depressed.

Papa (to Janakiram of Penukonda): How is your Nama Sankirtan going on?

Janakiram: Fine. All the devotees are very enthusiastic. Once we start, we ceaselessly repeat till we close the function. It is a source of great joy to all.

Papa: You have electrified the whole place with Ram Nam. It is said that it is not we who take the Name but the Name possesses us. Once it possesses us, it will never leave us. Ramdas was possessed by it and he is free like a child today.